Murder By The Book - Ender's Game

i am totally good with schedules
ye here's like a current read thing I guess


Mirdini-is a lurker dini pls
Crowstone-is also lurker but ye they're askin for replace
SleepingOrange-not really sure. like they could be a scum? If nola flips scum slorange is town fmpov. they're being kinda pushy so if nola is 3p would check them later
Garuru-ok I guess, fairly filler(then again so I am)
Schazer-probably coaligned with slorange/not coaligned with nola
Sotek-his interactions with nola are positive but could be bussing idk? neutral
icanhasdonut-no idea at all
Akumu-not sure like their interactions with seedy are somewhat odd but otherwise??? probably town
seedy-also probably town? is being generally helpful
Palamedes-null read
Nova-not sure like him and eberron stuff but apparently this is how he acts
eberron-see nova, prob coaligned with him
AgentBlue-get in here pls
amosmyn - Truegreen-didn't like amosmyn, not sure on green. seems to be trying
Dalm-hm that last post about it "don't wanna vote nola"
bigro-talk more plis
Chwoka-hasn't voted nola, was p active d1 and has dropped off(like me I guess?). flavorchart was useless and a fluffpost
Gnauga-not sure he's kinda weird
Granolaman-yee no he's scum/3p
Solaris-not sure his nolainteractions make him positive?


null reads
Mirdini
Crowstone
Garuru
bigro
Gnauga
AgentBlue

light town reads
amosmyn - Truegreen
Solaris
Schazer
Palamedes


light scum reads
Chwoka
Sotek
Nova/eberron-special case of coalignment
moderate scum
Dalm

moderate town
SleepingOrange
Akumu/seedy-these two are probably both confused town
scum
Granolaman
town
icanhasdonut

My power activated before the game began and replaced whatever cybers originally slated role was with that of my partner. Also seriously guys I cannot adequately react to all these votes and crap and I'd at least like to get my final thoughts off before you lynch me while I'm handicapped.

go ahead and get your final thoughts off no one is stopping you. I highly doubt this still because it's still an alignment change and that's stupid. it would ruin game balance.

The Two Gentlemen of Votals

Nova - 1 (Dalmationer)
eberron - 1 (Granolaman)
Akumu - 1 (Seedy)
Slorange - 1 (Truegreen)
Granolaman - 8 (Schazer, Slorange, Solaris, Nova, Garuru, eberron, icanhasdonut, Palamedes)

Again, I may have missed some votes. If I did, just make them again and I'll hopefully catch them on the next check.

With 20 players alive and present, it takes 11 to lynch and six to soft lynch.
Deadline is Tuesday, April 1 at 11:59 PM.

What even is a bodystacker anyway?

hisses don't edit posts
a bodystacker is someone who basically wants everyone to die. or a lot of people. their wincon is literally to "stack up bodies"
example reed Richards from marvelfia:

ParadoxGamer - Reed Richards
-Marvelfia
-3rd party bodystacker, would win if there were less than two players alive at endgame.

I think I need to apologize to everyone, in that I way underestimated the amount of mental engagement that playing this game well would take. It was a lot easier when I was a serial killer and just had to keep the bodies hitting the floor.

Thinking about a bodystacker's win condition, they would almost certainly want to start out by killing town, seeing as town have the numerical advantage. What is a typical proportion of mafia? If it's lower than a third then a bodystacker would definitely get advantage from killing town to begin with. Even with that, given the roleclaim, I feel that we could possibly trust Granola for one more day, except for the fact that his explanation of his role does look like it contradicts the set-up promise of no alignment switches.

I'm going to go ahead and Vote: Granolaman, and try to put together some coherent thoughts on everyone else for Day 3.

A game balanced for a single scum team will have a scum team who is no less than 1/4 of the playerbase (5 mafiosos), but no larger than 1/3 (7 mafiosos). The exact numbers will depend on the power roles, if any, each side has, and whether the team has peripheral members like a traitor.

Having an anti-town 3P is less plausible the closer you bump up against that upper 1/3 limit. Based on the plausibility of Granola's claim, that whole pregame recruitment think is skeevy as heck even if the game were balanced for what ultimately ended up being two 3rd parties. There's a lot of interactions there that could really fuck up town or scum based on who he precruited.

I don't think you can guarantee bodystackers'd pick off town first; after all, what they'll nominally need is one mafioso alive at end game, so they've already got four more than what they really need.

---

Also Pala thanks for checking in, and I apologise for hitting a sore point with my jabs at you about activity. It hadn't registered that you're having computer trouble, and I'll keep that in mind from here on out.

Guys don't just give up 'cause some dudes said I'm always a lil scummy

You have the right to your own opinions

Plus hopefully I am shaping up to be a solid info lynch so :v

I don't think you can guarantee bodystackers'd pick off town first; after all, what they'll nominally need is one mafioso alive at end game, so they've already got four more than what they really need.

But they've got at least twelve more town than they need, yeah?

seedy probably needs to chill because at this point she's pretty much tunneling. Also maybe Akumu doesn't want to answer your questions because they're buried in huge textwalls. (not saying Akumu is okay for dodging questions, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here, and saying that if he doesn't want to answer your questions, asking more questions probably isn't going to help? Also, there's been a lot of Akumu focus and little focus on other people.) to me akumu seems kiiind of a little better for your intense focus on him? still vaguely scum but his responses make sense to me, if i were in his shoes i would probably do the same, because gosh textwalls against you are intimidating.

I don't mean to textwall, I'm just a pedant by nature ;-;
(part of it's also that I reread a bunch of posts and then make One Big One instead of making a bunch of little ones throughout the day)
I've been trying to talk about other players and not tunnel too much
it's just, I don't get why "this person does very little, this person casts vague doubt without a vote to back it up, this person crawls out of the woodwork to answer questions but still doesn't have an opinion, etc." isn't getting picked up on by anyone else as suspicious behavior when it's Ultra Classic Scumtells ™
I want Akumu dead? nothing he has said done has made me feel better?
and you saying this makes me feel even less good about you too...am I scummy for focusing on Akumu? you just say he "seems better but still scum" because of it (wishy-washy) and don't follow that thought through to any opinion on me.

but yeah I'll talk about some other people

... ha ha, just kidding

Active players
[...]
Akumu

WHERE are you getting that, for real. can I ask you to do the "find all posts by user thing" and glance over what he's said today because it's NOT BEEN MUCH

I'm good with Solaris (this is partially because they have experience and know how to make sure a post is full of Opinions That Satisfy (but, hey, y'know, OPINIONS) (plus I agree with most of it aside from the fact that I have a nagging and unreasonable suspicion of Schazer)). Agent's decent. granola feels hard to read and sorta frenzied but I don't really agree with his wagon...and some of the votes are Iffy. truegreen feels sooo off but it's really hard for me to wrap my head around scum doing what they did/are doing. Watts is alright, pala and donut are both hovering at a certain level of watchful concern.
[I had some mechanics talk @ truegreen about slorange but I have redacted it as I feel it no longer makes sense in light of recent setup revelations]

oh so granola is 3p. WELP THAT PERFECTLY EXPLAINS ALL MY FEELINGS ABOUT HIM + HIS WAGON. LIKE WOW
I mean I'd disbelieve him but? he felt so 3p and his wagon felt weird and this all makes so much sense
but not leaving him around ALSO makes sense

Pala can you explain how (to reiterate myself) "this person does very little, this person casts vague doubt without a vote to back it up, this person crawls out of the woodwork to answer questions but still doesn't have an opinion, etc." can be wholly summed up as a 'playstyle difference?' surely your critique of dalm counts as that too, then. and even eberron, maybe! 'playstyle difference' is starting to feel like a buzzword.
(for the record I don't like what dalm is doing either)

Wait donut, there was a debate between you and granola? (besides the one about which is a better secondary breakfast option at least.)

10/10 I laughed

(also duly noted, both you and donut seem to be having Life Issues so I'll bring down the watchful concern a notch)

SpoilerShow

rugged, manly, 3P-nurturing wing

hmmmmmmmmmmm

If nothing happens, town dies and mafia doesn't. :P

pffffbt

Seedy, I know Granola and I have a long-standing thing, but, like, no hetero, I swear

I wish Schaz would take me under her pants I MEAN WING

That said, Slorange having multiple powers on top of his already ridiculous one feels more and more like bs.

I never claimed that. In fact, I claimed the opposite of that at daystart. Are you misinterpreting something I said or am I forgetting someone postulating I had other powers?

I don't have much left to contribute today; my top suspicion is going to be lynched, and rightly so. I'm usually way more tolerant of letting third parties survive than the vast majority of players, but come on, a bodystacker? That promises to play pro-town when their wincon necessitates them playing against town's interests for the majority of the game? No thanks, Kevin. Since there's not much left for me to say for the moment, I will reveal the cards I have been holding close to my chest today. There are not many of them.

People I haven't seen enough from to justify suspicion one way or another:
Mirdini
Crowstone
Sotek
AgentBlue
Dalm
bigro
Chwoka
Gnauga

People I should have an opinion of but don't:
Nova
Garuru

People I am moderately suspicious of without strong backing or reasoning:
Schazer (Too ready to side with me but otherwise contributing)
icanhasdonut (Feels kind of followerish? Few strong convictions? I don't know, feels off, but I'm probably wrong)
Palamedes (I am suspicious of anyone suspicious of me based primarily on my claim. It's too easy a target and mostly just doesn't make sense)
eberron (Moves more from "just a newbie" to "newbie scum" every day)
Solaris (Contributions feel like going through the motions to satisfy town, hasn't added much to conversations)

People I am very suspicious of:
Truegreen
Gnauga (Either town who genuinely believes me or scum who knows I'm going to be vindicated and wants to be able to say "Hey look I was right and supported the right guy all along, I'm trustworthy". Granola claiming 3p makes me more suspicious it's the latter)
Granolaman

People I feel pretty safe about:
Akumu (Genuinely feels like an inexperienced player trying to apply what he's learned outside the games. Could be wrong here)
seedy (Strong convictions, arguments not relying on meta or mechanics or lazy lazy vote reasoning. Good times)
SleepingOrange (Couldn't have masterminded anything complicated, probably just telling the truth and played towards town's interests by preventing the assumption that Cyber was town)

Schazer (Too ready to side with me but otherwise contributing)

I have seen this several times now and it's starting to look like 'Stop agreeing with me they'll figure out we're scumbuds'

All the more adamant about seeing this guy flip in the next couple days

Seedy, Akumu feels like someone who isn't in this to play spry srsly (and I didn't find them going against lurkers while sitting on the eberron wagon that bad, especially given that most of the playerlist had already given up on lynching completely). Also walls are super daunting, especially when it's focused on you and you alone. I mean, I'm amazed people didn't just look at mine and tell me to go to hell. Secondly, I did say 'at first' or something, while your points made more sense later on you also became a lot more wall-y and did pretty much nothing but focus on them. I guess I also feel Akumu handled it in a townish way (by not panicking or anything). I'm not super happy that they're not actively participating, but that leads to my next point...

It doesn't help that a lot of people's townreads are basically doing the same thing (albeit more actively, I'll give you that). At least, they're all doing nothing but answer questions and cast vague doubts. I'm getting a feeling that our leaders are close to living the Mafioso's dream: leading the town without actually contributing to the scumhunt.

Do it, then. Put your money where your mouth is. I'm getting sick of hearing "I want you dead... eventually" because from my perspective it sounds an awful lot like a backdoor to back out of that suspicion when it becomes obvious I'm town if you haven't managed to get me killed by then.

Even if Granola's right in guessing that scum lost daychat after night one, do you really think I wouldn't just wait until tonight to tell Schazer or Gnauga to distance themselves from me? Really? You think I'm so stupid as to try to communicate with my scummates where literally everyone can see it? That's dumb as hell, and you're either disingenuous or severely wrong to suggest it. Do you really think that people who have been playing this game as long as Schazer and I have would be big enough idiots to buddy up while knowingly coaligned?

Somebody make a case against me that isn't lazy or weak so I can have someone suspicious of me I don't want to vote for.

EBWOP: Slorange, I thought you talked about reasons why you were being vague, but it was more of you revealing your secret doublevoting powers. And your claim is far and away from the thing that makes me suspicious of you, it's just one more thing to add to the pile.

I'm now starting to feel really weird about voting NovaWatts earlier.

I don't have secret doublevoting powers, that was a joke :1

Votals have been tallied since then, if I had them they'd show up. And it'd be nonsensical of me to reveal them anyway because I already claimed to not have any powers other than the redirect. The reasons I gave for being vague were in response to Chwoka asking me what reasons I could have for lying were I town, not Actual True Statements; I had mentioned earlier (in a post dedicated to why my claim shouldn't make me more or less suspicious given the information I had) that I could be lying regardless of my alignment, and he didn't see why I would as town.

Do it, then. Put your money where your mouth is. I'm getting sick of hearing "I want you dead... eventually" because from my perspective it sounds an awful lot like a backdoor to back out of that suspicion when it becomes obvious I'm town if you haven't managed to get me killed by then.

Even if Granola's right in guessing that scum lost daychat after night one, do you really think I wouldn't just wait until tonight to tell Schazer or Gnauga to distance themselves from me? Really? You think I'm so stupid as to try to communicate with my scummates where literally everyone can see it? That's dumb as hell, and you're either disingenuous or severely wrong to suggest it. Do you really think that people who have been playing this game as long as Schazer and I have would be big enough idiots to buddy up while knowingly coaligned?

Somebody make a case against me that isn't lazy or weak so I can have someone suspicious of me I don't want to vote for.

Ahahahaha

You asked for it, tough guy

I'll see you tomorrow



Oh and by the by

Nope, as has been pointed out a couple of times, I'm just not that smart.

Unvote Slorange 2014: Too Dumb For Scum

Figure out if you're smart or dumb before you shoot off your sardonic rhetorical questions cannon again

We still have some time, and I note that Mirdini still hasn't said anything. Prod-vote: Mirdini. See if that does the trick.

In other news, D: disturbing nola's claim is disturbing. Let's remember that lynching third parties is generally good practice, since in the absence of a good scum target they're at least 'not town' - but also remember that lynching them brings us no closer to the target of eliminating scum from our communities. But a bodystacker? Remember that this is someone whose win condition is to literally kill everyone. And he doesn't exactly have more information on who the scum are than we do, which makes his 'aligning with the town' close to worthless, aside from any powers - oh that's right, he's powerless.

So what bloody use is he?

I'll switch my vote to him before dayend if I manage to catch it, but I want to keep my prodvote on Mirdi a little while first. Because, you know, prod.

Seedy, Akumu feels like someone who isn't in this to play spry srsly (and I didn't find them going against lurkers while sitting on the eberron wagon that bad, especially given that most of the playerlist had already given up on lynching completely). Also walls are super daunting, especially when it's focused on you and you alone. I mean, I'm amazed people didn't just look at mine and tell me to go to hell. Secondly, I did say 'at first' or something, while your points made more sense later on you also became a lot more wall-y and did pretty much nothing but focus on them. I guess I also feel Akumu handled it in a townish way (by not panicking or anything). I'm not super happy that they're not actively participating, but that leads to my next point...

It doesn't help that a lot of people's townreads are basically doing the same thing (albeit more actively, I'll give you that). At least, they're all doing nothing but answer questions and cast vague doubts. I'm getting a feeling that our leaders are close to living the Mafioso's dream: leading the town without actually contributing to the scumhunt.

mmf, maybe you're right...I guess the behavior is partially more noticeable on Akumu than others because the decline from "helping start the main lynch to" "active lurking" is really steep
I still want them dead and would really really like to see them give 3 most town/3 most scum opinions...but I guess I really will back off more and look harder at other people. like maybe garuru. or dalm. I am going to make text walls for every new-ish player in this game
speaking of VAGUE DOUBTS though, who exactly's doing the same as Akumu? I glanced over your reads in case it was obvious and you'd just go "look at my reads seedy god" but everyone you're suspicious of has been vocal enough for my tastes? are there some specific instances where they were like "LYNCH [x] *drops voice* but also I feel unsure about some of the people...currently voting..."

so nola did your selecting of cyber overwrite whatever role he had before or did he come with the investigations? also why did you pick cyber?

Oi Watts

play nice

seedy imo dalm wouldnt react to grilling that well? feel free to burn bigro and garu tho

dalm do you have any suspicions or anything like htat? like a lot of stuff has happened today and its okay for you to like, say things other people have said whats important is that you say things out of your mouth to be ETCHED INTO THE THREAD FOR ALL OF ETERNITY