Murder By The Book - Ender's Game

Incredibly Timely Votals

Coldblooded - 2 (icanhasdonut, AgentBlue)
AgentBlue - 1 (Coldblooded)
Whimbrel - 1 (Nova)

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 5 to soft-lynch. Deadline is Tuesday, May 6th at 11:59 PM Mountain time.

Eb was the interpreter for sotek's being covered in pie being a townfirm because he too was covered in pie which was psychic pie.

Eberron actually didn't have knowledge of sotek's pie. The pie eberron got hit with apparently only gave him the names of pies that had already been thrown. The pie palamedes threw at sotek was thrown afterwards, so eberron can't give any special information on what sotek's pie means.

We're all assuming it's a townfirm pie because

But a moment later, a strange, warm glow surrounds Sotek. It carries with it a sense of serenity, peace. There's something very comforting about Sotek afterwards, though nobody can put their finger on just what it is.

it's pretty unambiguous what that means unless DF is really gunning for that bastard mod trophy.

Indeed. I only knew of 3 of the 4 pies at the time.

vote: Whimbrel

Let's just lynch a lurker today and get this over with. I would very much like to know more roles, in order to be able to figure this out. Barring a massclaim, lynching lurkers seem to be a good course right now.

Even disregarding the pie entirely, Sotek and Pala were both fairly major players on two scum lynches in a row, and have been acting generally protown besides that. So I'm comfortable calling both of them town for now.

I'd like to point out that Coldblooded's argument regarding "green not wanting to lynch lurkers = lurkers is scum = Agen is scum" is flawed;

Except that that's not even remotely what I was saying at all? There are a whole lot of people that look townish right now for a wide variety of reasons. And the list of town looking people just so happens to match up almost exactly with the list of non-lurkers.

Not to mention that you're parlaying your defence of green into proof of your innocence, whereas apparently my defence of him proves my guilt.

ô_ò

You giving a passing defense of Truegreen on D3 is not what's scummy, what's scummy is the fact that he's one of the few people you mention in both of your two readwalls up to that point, (once calling him suspicious and then ignoring him to go throw your vote on Mirdini, and the second time calling him townish) but then not even posting at all for the entire day yesterday when he and Eberron were going up against each other.

Remember earlier when I said that I suspected scum of hiding off in the background yesterday, getting ready to throw a vote on Eberron at the last minute before Donut could show up and claim? Hi there Agent. (To be fair I'm not sure whether or not you have a good excuse for not posting yesterday, but I don't remember hearing about it if there was one.)

And then they come in early today and start posting up a relative storm immediately after an incredibly talkative scum agent kicks the bucket. That's uh... kind of a textbook scumtell?

So now if I keep talking/try to defend myself I'm obviously the new green, right? Or if I'm silent I'm obviously the new green, right? Nice Morton's fork you've got there.

No, talking and defending yourself are not scummy actions on their own at all, but having a huge, unprovoked jump in activity immediately after two scum members have been lynched in a row is. It sort of indicates that your thought process is somewhere along the lines of "Oh dang, our most active scummate just died! Guess somebody better go pick up the slack for them there, huh?"

Alternately, somebody else on your team warned you last you last night that today was going to be open season on all lurkers, so you should probably get out ahead of the pack and all that.

As a side note, you're acting awfully defensive for having only a single vote on you right now. Maybe try toning that down just a bit.
_____________________________________________________

Anyways, I'm leaving to go to my cousin's wedding in Michigan tomorrow morning, so I might be posting sparsely for the next day and a half or so. In the meantime, I would still very much like to hear from all the other people on the orange list up there.

I'm BACK and out for BLOOD

gnauga while you're buddying my corpse it might be pertinent for you to notice that you quoted me saying you were iffy
your post is weird because for a good 70% of the game I was dead fucking wrong about truegreen and actually defended him a little. it seems like you're picking and choosing what to quote me saying so you can use my townflip to get people lynched? well it's all okay the real me is here now

nova I get wanting to suspect donut I really do but the information he gave DID lead to a scumlynch and that's pretty hard to ignore. unless you think eberron is scum too I'm not sure your position makes sense? lord, you're lucky he decided to check you...

agent...there's a lot of reasons why maf wouldn't outright kill a cop. there are numerous protective roles which, if they existed, would almost certainly protect a claimed cop. mafia would prefer to go for a lesser target than try to kill a big target and fail, because for them that's wasting a night. they probably won't target donut until they feel assured that there's no town protective roles.

schazer I'm unsure about you popping in just to ask garuru for more sweet info nectar

coldblooded out of your orangeys I'd pick agent or gnauga. maybe dalm but eh
agent is scummy but I don't feel like she is scum for certain reasons...then again it's similar logic that led me to think truegreen is scum and we all know how that turned out, so
don't agree with that lynch, tek
btw agent, donut has copclears on akumu and eberron so unless you think he's a liar it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to vote eberron

hmm mm vote: gnauga

the thing I'm seeing from agent today is "fighting townfirmations".

vote: AgentBlue.

fine with either a gnauga or agentblue lynch tbh

also hi again seedy

wb seedy
I did keep going back in your posts, but I was looking for reads and leads it seemed like you'd keep pushing today, i.e. stuff that would still be relevant post-Truegreen's flip i.e. stuff Undercover would not want you to keep doing. So you defended Truegreen for most of the day, and I figured you wouldn't necessarily be keeping the reads that were based or tied to Truegreen being town. It was more thinking aloud for me. There's not much strong info there I'll be the first to say that (I was!) (I did notice you said I was iffy; I did make sure to include that too as it would be pertinent) (which it was)

SpoilerShow

[color:00FF00] Basically townfirmed:
Donut
Eberron, Akumu, Nova (based on nutcop)
Sotek
Garuru
Gnauga (;D)
[/color]
[color:00AA00]Strong town:
Palamedes
[/color]
Neutral:
Coldblooded -

[color:666666]
Lurkish yesterday:
Whimbrel
Gnauga
Schazer
Absolute lurk yesterday:
Bigro/Seedy (But they're back now)
Dalmationer (Last post: Day 3)
Agentblue (You're here too)
[/color]

I'm feeling more of a Dalm lynch. AgentBlue just jumped in fists swinging D5, but I don't feel like penalizing someone off the bat for coming out of lurkerdom. We've gone after relatively active people most of these rounds; it wouldn't be out of the question for scum to advise their survivor (Dalm, perhaps) alright, lay low, come up gradually later in the day, try not to die, there's plenty of lurkers, hope some other idiot takes the flak. This qualifies for Whimbrel too, I suppose. If neither of them show up, I'll probably switch to whimbrel to bring down The Heat ( or Nova can switch to dalm I guess)

vote: Dalmationer
getcho self in here

I doubt there's anything in seedy's reads to explain why she was shot, tbh.

anyway I do dislike lynching someone for being active, but agentblue is fighting townfirms and every time I let that pass I regret it.

Votals: Always So Punctual

Coldblooded - 2 (icanhasdonut, AgentBlue)
AgentBlue - 2 (Coldblooded, Sotek)
Whimbrel - 2 (Nova, Garuru)
Gnauga - 1 (Seedy)
Dalmationer - 1 (Gnauga)

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 5 to soft-lynch. Deadline is Tuesday, May 6th at 11:59 PM Mountain time.

why the heck would pala as scum use a daycop on me? Or if he didn't know what it does, why again would he do that?

(emphasis mine)

Just noticed this from late Day 4 and realized that there are some things about Slorange's role that aren't supposed to be hidden now that the role's dead, so I'm going to clear them up in case anyone's confused.

Recipients of Slorange's pies did not receive any indication of the effect before using it. They were also required to use the pie, whether eating it or throwing it, within the next day/night cycle.

Note that this is not confirmation of the pie's speculated effect. This is only an explanation of how it would work if the pie in question was produced through Slorange's ability. (I am not confirming whether or not I've secretly included other pies that use different rules somewhere in the setup, use your own judgement on that point.)

Just to be clear: could the pie recipient choose to neither eat nor throw it and just allow it to expire?

They could not. If they failed to make a choice in time, we'd just force them to eat it.

yeah I have to agree with sotek, trying to guess someone being shot off of their reads is usually wifom territory since mafia know perfectly well people will do that. yeah
most nightkills are either power roles, very good town leaders, or people who are not going to be mislynched
since pretty much everyone (with the exception of 'tek going "seedy defending 'green is something to be looked at") was putting me in town, I fell into the third category
It's That Simple ™

also dalm scum is way more likely than whim scum imo
but I don't think you'll get terribly good results out of pressuring either of them!
btw gnauga aside from whether you want to 'penalize' agent for coming out of lurkerdom, do you think she's scum?

I had a whole thing written up, and my initial assessment was that AgentBlue was more derp than scum. You can read that first draft here:

SpoilerShow

TBH, agent seems more derp than scum. Like, we've basically townfirmed a third to a half of the living townies which is surprisingly good work I don't know if this is typical mafia mid-end-game, but a lot of the evidence has been stuff that could be easily skimmed over. Like, it took me a few reads to find who donut copped. I'd believe, and kind of expect, AgentBlue to have been not following the thread for a while, skim quickly to catch up, and miss a bunch of important stuff. Like who's been basically townfirmed. And the mafia culture around here puts a lot more credits on feels and reads than mechanism and game theory, so that's not a dig at AgentBlue specifically. So to answer your question succinctly, no, I don't think they are scum. Or at least, not compellingly more so than the others so far. I'd rather lynch someone who's been absolutely silent over AgentBlue currently. But AgentBlue could conceivably flip that on its head in one post!

But then I started trying to figure scum strategy. Solaris is pretty experienced, but Truegreen's new. Solaris went out with some grace, tried to leave behind reads to maybe hail-mary a wine. Truegreen, on the other hand, went for the more ham-handed "I really can't die, me dying would be pretty bad" and I started wondering what kind of coaching would inspire Truegreen to go for that.
In one of my earlier mafias in my pretty short mafia career, I was a mafia in a newbie mafia where each of us got paired with a mentor. I was about to get lynched, and the advice I got was "Flail, Gnauga! Flail for your life!" I dunno if dead mafia get to chat with the living, but I could see Solaris telling Truegreen something similar. And given the pretty poor position scum's in in general, (only half of the 14 survivors are even on the table for a lynch whatsoever) I would actually expect them to figure "I literally can't make this situation much worse; might as well go all in and try to embed myself in the town reads."

A more daring or devious scum might decide to hide one of their own as a powerlurk, which is the scenario I was initially imagining, but scum actions so far have been pretty straightforward, and I can't mentally justify Whimbrel being tricksy/gutsy enough to try for that. Solaris and Truegreen, at least, look like they play more traditionally. I don't know enough about Dalm to say, but he's been playing the lurk game pretty hard so in the powerlurk scenario, it's probably Dalm.
AgentBlue seems just flailing enough to fit the bill for the much more traditional and likely hail-mary odds are against us but try to shove yourself in the town-hole as hard as you can and stay there scum strategy. Of course, there's always the possibility (from an outside observer's perspective) that scum is myself (Gnauga) or coldblooded or bigro/seedy, in which case we'd just keep up our usual level of activity.

to elaborate on AgentBlue flailing, I'm referring to opening with challenging donut's cop, then a pretty bulky, not very solid readwall. It looks like the usual townie/pass-as-a-townie activities, crossed with some stall tactics turning the debate onto donut's legitimacy and the townfirmed rather than letting the town look at lurker/lurkish lynches. Also potentially bonus hoping to leverage Nova's paranoia into a more broadly shared sentiment of suspicion against donut, into maybe a lynch that can't be blocked like a nightkill probably would be, or better yet undermining donut's cleared list.

As an aside, the eberron-sotek link is drawing my attention for some reason, though. I can see how, reading the several pages of D4, you might mix up the chronology, but reading any of the posts questioning eberron with relation to the divinity pie seems like it would have made it pretty clear. I'm gonna sleep on what that actually means though.

Man, I'm just gonna straight up confess I don't know what to think yet about bigro/seedy slot and schazer. I've don't usually survive this long, so I'm half learning how to play end-game myself. Looks like we're in a good spot, though, which is kind of a relief.

SpoilerShow

In b4 grand reveal we've all been massively rolled and the rest of the mafia is in the townfirms

All that said, I feel like I've talked kind of meanly-harshly-jerkishly against AgentBlue, and at the very least you should have the opportunity to tear me a new one in return. I'll leave my vote where it is until you get the chance to defend yourself/beat me up, and also other folks get a chance to feedback. Or until I get impatient and vote anyway in nine hours or so

I dunno if dead mafia get to chat with the living, but I could see Solaris telling Truegreen something similar.

Dead mafia players are not allowed to talk with the living ones in any substantial way.

(Incidentally, Dalm is a girl.)

I'm sorry I try to use singular they always, but it slipped and I forgot. If you're reading this, Dalm, I'm sincerely sorry!

Vote: Whimbrel
is she even playing??
get lost lurker

A more daring or devious scum might decide to hide one of their own as a powerlurk, which is the scenario I was initially imagining, but scum actions so far have been pretty straightforward, and I can't mentally justify Whimbrel being tricksy/gutsy enough to try for that. Solaris and Truegreen, at least, look like they play more traditionally. I don't know enough about Dalm to say, but he's been playing the lurk game pretty hard so in the powerlurk scenario, it's probably Dalm.

Actually I just keep forgetting this exists. Plus, having very little experience to draw upon, I'm not really very good at pinpointing who sounds guilty and who doesn't. Sorry if I like was giving you spooky signs or anything :c.

also apology accepted i'll let it slide this time bucko >:O

Reminder to newer players: you can ask me for advice in your Quicktopics.

Event!

A cute little guinea pig scurries through the library.

Catch guinea pig

#interacts with every event

Nova tries to catch the guinea pig, but it's already run off into a dark corner and vanished.