Some Real-Talk: Hawkspace After Dark Problems

i wish it wasn't

Almost this exact topic was raised when Hawkspace was first made in fact

i'm not complaining about the existing quorum system by way of protest or anything. tell you the truth, as soon as literally one thing was able to meet quorum, it was clear that it could be passed by something reasonable enough, so i couldn't justify being upset at it anymore. the entire rationale for the forum was "it sounds like it would be fun if voting was ridiculously easy and spun out of control wildly, but in a way that doesn't screw over the careful handiwork of pharmdrugs".

essentially, that makes the whole subsubforum a game. and you're right that it's not democratic, and is even hypocritical to the central thesis, for me to step in like i do! (thanks for saying i'm not a bad filter, btw.) maybe i shouldn't, maybe i should because most games do need a "referee" of sorts? maybe i shouldn't, but only because i am openly flying by the seat of my pants and am thus clearly not the one fit to lead?

@Jac
That's not surprising. I just feel that maybe we could have just lowered quorum a bit and we wouldn't have to deal with two redundant forums? Whatever. You guys convinced me.

@Chwoka
I like the idea that this whole subforum is basically a game, as long as it's clear that that's what it is.

@Jac
That's not surprising. I just feel that maybe we could have just lowered quorum a bit and we wouldn't have to deal with two redundant forums?

ive argued for doing it like fifty times before, that was never going to happen

Yeah, Schazer, your support is probably the main comfort I have about this.

If it is all fun and games though, as a request, can we keep the effects regulated to this subforum?

Things like, "changing users titles" for breaking format, or enforceable punishments wouldn't be an issue if this was a single thread, but some of the talk has implied that breaking the HAD-specific rules could, with the right votes, cause severe annoyances for more casual users.

It would be a pain, too, if joining in on a discussion here meant having to read through a slog of rules so as to not get unexpectedly wrist-slapped for something as simple as a formatting error.

I know this is just the start, and so things will be rocky. That's why I figure that it's important for people to say things now, to help curtail any actual problems that might come down the line.

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SpoilerI should probably put a tag on the title so that people can know to expect a real-talk zone here?

if you don't want slaps on the wrist for silly obscure rules regular hawkspace is literally that

@Chwoka
I like the idea that this whole subforum is basically a game, as long as it's clear that that's what it is.

Agreed. And you've been a pretty solid ref so far! I certainly feel listened to.

Thanks for changing the thread title, dude.

The user title change as punishment is definitely something that really only works if everyone's keeping up with the rules - I'm actually gonna vote no on my amended version until we can figure out amnesty for newbies. Maybe you only get the user title if you break the rule twice? Though that still relies on folks keeping abreast of people reporting their posts in the nark thread...

Thanks for changing the thread title, dude.

Yeah, it's much less confrontational, and much more focused to the actual value of raising concerns, rather than just bitching about change. I'm sorry for any frustration caused by the latter.

Now that I have a better idea of What's Up, I see the appeal a lot more. I agree that this does have the potential to become another fun space. And goodness knows I am a sucker for voting games.

@Chwoka
I like the idea that this whole subforum is basically a game, as long as it's clear that that's what it is.

the delineation is arbitrary and the blurring of the boundary of game and forum is part of the game

imo

I think the key thing is, any punishments (outside of Actual Serious Problems, which are a kettle of fish we've been fortunate to avoid so far) have to be straight-up voluntary.

If I break a rule that exists just for the heck of it, I shouldn't have to deal with it at all if I don't want to. Yeah, maybe I'm being a poor sport, but maybe I'm just having a bad day and even doing the mildest of things to address whatever frivolous rule I broke is more than I'm willing to deal with.

That sounds grumpy, so let me be a bit more specific on the sort of thing I'm thinking of.

Say we had a list of things you can do after violating a rule. This might be "go around with this custom title", "change your avatar for a week", "start a thread about this", "post an apology haiku", whatever. And each item on the list has a point value. Do a more demanding task and you get more, let's call them "Redemption Points". Collect enough and, I don't know, you can get silly meaningless prizes?

But one of the tasks is "nothing at all", and it's an option but you don't get any points for it.

This way the rulebreaking is more of a game, one that you can opt out of at any time. (Ideally there would also be rewards for rule-following, so it's an actual strategic decision. I don't have mechanical thoughts on that, though.) This, I think, is the issue. As it stands right now, you can't really opt-out of the "game" aspect without opting-out of the forum, but I don't see that as a necessary condition to running a subforum-wide game. And I think letting people choose to just ignore the game if they want, but play along any time they feel like it, will make the game side of the forum into more of a fun extra and less of a burden.

This is just Talk rather than A Formal Rule Proposal because i don't feel up to assembling it into the latter. Just tossing it out there as a general idea.

that's a fun idea

I like that. Like the old challenges basically.

there is an issue with it though, it encourages people to break rules

how about we have some kind of reward system for not breaking rules in the first place?

there is an issue with it though, it encourages people to break rules

BuT iT's NoT lIkE uSiNg MuLtIpLe CaPaTaLiZaTiOn AcTuAlLy CaUsEs AnY rEaL pRoBlEmS.
(well, maybe when you use it like that)

like what is the point in even having rules even if they're basically just there to be ignored

the way rules are passed and changed are the only things that distinguish this subforum from hawkspace proper

and i want this subforum to be its own thing, it could be fun

They should be fun, but simultaneously humiliating. Fun enough that they aren't really a huge deal but unfun enough that they do deter rule-breaking.

no, i don't think people should be humiliated

Not actually humiliated, you know what I mean.

yeah fair

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