The Problems Thread

This thread is a place for Eagle-Timers looking for advice, help, or guidance on whatever ails ya.

The flipping tables thread is mainly a venting platform and conciliatory remarks might not be what a poster there wants. However, it's certainly no fun reading through sometimes pained statements made by the cool folks here and not having an unobtrusive recourse to offer support.

So this is for that. We have a solid collection of people here, all who've struggled or are struggling through the rougher seasons of life. If you're feeling frustrated or down and would like to seek some input, feel free to post here. If you have some sweet life-tips that have helped you through rough times, feel free to share them!

As with all places on the forum, friendship is paramount here - keep that in mind when posting!

So, since posting this, I've seen that I was wrong about the flipping tables thread.

This is a good thing.

A rule thumb, I'm starting to figure out, is that if you want to say something nice or helpful, you don't need worry too much about where you put it.

That being said, I want to share something that, for the last couple of years, has been really helpful for me when I've found myself dealing with conflicts, personal issues, or just general unhappiness.

I'm going to use generalizations - not because they are scientifically true for all people (that would be a laugh), but because I know that my brain is wired to work with generalizations. When I am not feeling 100%, it helps if I can skip past all the "maybes" and "sometimes" and jump straight into what I know helps me.

Really, these are just tools you can use. If you think they might be helpful, then pick them up and use them, but if these tools don't work for you, feel free to set them down and try something else.

Also - and this is the important part - if one of you has some similar tools or principles that have helped you out, it would be great to see them shared here.

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So one set of tools I use for answering "Why do I feel sucky about this?" comes from an idea called the "7 desires of the heart". These desires are fairly universal, and although some are more important than others for different people, it's often better to describe them as needs.

When I find myself feeling "blugh". ("blugh" could be depressed, irritable, ashamed, all sorts of things) this is when I scroll through this checklist and try to figure out just what I feel like I am lacking.

So here is the list:

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seven desires of the heart

To be heard and understood

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This is one that comes up ALOT. Especially in your social circles.

As a teacher, my pet peeve is simply when student's don't listen. I start to think "Why am I wasting my time going over this?". As a younger teacher, I would start to yell, get angry, and eventually just stop trying when I felt like students wouldn't bother to hear or think about what I would say.

It happens in every circle. People hate being ignored. It's why the "silent treatment" is such a prevalent passive-aggressive punishment. Often, I will run into students who won't even bother speaking up because they have just assumed that nobody will listen to them.

It's painful to feel like nobody cares what you have to say.


The other side of this is the "understood" part. When we share a story or express our feelings to someone, we are doing so with the expectation that, on some level, they will relate to us. If someone sits patiently and hears you out, but then jumps back with a comment or retort that tells you that they have no idea where you're coming from - a sense of loneliness can start to creep up on you.

The same things can happen. You'll get angry, or frustrated, you'll repeat what you tried to say but LOUDER this time. Not because you think you were too quiet, but because you don't feel heard, your brain treats the emotional distance like a physical one. It's trying to help, I suppose. Again, if you still don't think someone understands you, the next step is to simply give up.

This is particularly bad when it comes from someone you're close to, or someone you're dependent on. Really, for all the desires mentioned here, they're magnified 100-fold when dealing with parents, close friends, or significant others. If we can't fulfill these needs there, where can we turn to next?

To be affirmed

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Simply put, affirmation is our need to have others tell us we've done a good job.

At a place like this one, where people are constantly putting out creative works or new ideas, being able to affirm one another is very important.

A book I've been reading (perhaps I will share it later) puts it this way:

Growing up many of us didn't get affirmed very much, if at all. Worse, some of us got criticized instead. When either of these situations is true, we will be starved for affirmation. We might do anything to get it, often working ourselves to death or conforming our behavior to what we think others will like.

That latter part is one that I've struggled with a lot. I've frequently, and unhealthily taken in the criticism I've gotten from others and thought "I have to change this fundamental thing about myself." without really thinking about how valid or important the criticism was.

This manifests itself another way. Often, when faced with silence, either on a project or in a relationship, I will begin to panic. My fear becomes "what are all the negative things people are thinking about me?" What do I need to change? How can I change it?

It can become an obsession.


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I think this is a good space to clarify something about needs.

There are always two directions to approach a need. There is the ability of others to fulfill it, and there is your ability to accept it. A very important piece of advice: You cannot change the former, but you can work on the latter.

For each of these, the experiences we have in life make a profound impact on our ability to accept the needs offered by others. This doesn't mean that we desire the need any less, oddly enough, the times where I have had the most difficulty accepting things like affirmation or touch, are the times where I desperately wanted it the most.

Insecurity is a very common, very unhelpful word here. I think that "trust" is much more appropriate. We don't trust others to fulfill our needs, or we don't trust ourselves to be worthy of it.

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Now, for myself, it is much easier. There are many reasons for this change, and perhaps I will share some more later, but essentially I find it much easier to post a project, or idea, or comment without worrying about if I'll be faced with rejection. I believe the things I make are good, not because of the thoughts of others, but simply because I made them. Affirmation is still a need - I will regularly ask for opinions or critiques on things I have done, but I am much more capable of accepting what is given and, hopefully, returning it in kind.

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As a side note: I had this conversation with my wife a couple of days ago:

btp: DOES THE DISHES AND MAKES DINNER LIKE A BOSS
btp wife: "Thank you so much, you're amazing."
btp: "Aw, that's all I needed to hear."
[pause]
btp: "okay seriously though I am going to need like a TON more affirmation throughout this relationship, like DECADES of this stuff."

To be blessed

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The word "blessed" might carry some odd connotations for people either not raised in a religious background, or raised in a very negative one.

I think a more universal term, would be "accepted", but I like "blessed" because of the unconditional nature I feel it entails.

While affirmation is about behavior, being blessed is just about who you are. You're blessed when you hear that you're a "good person", that you're kind or have become a great individual. You don't have to "do" anything to get a blessing, you just have to be you.

It's when we aren't blessed, that we start to feel shame about ourselves. It becomes the source of the worst possible lie we can tell:

"If people really knew me, they could never love me."

This lie is so powerful and prevalent that it affects people at all ages, times, and places. It causes us to hide and be ashamed. It makes us suspicious of complements, and makes us afraid of sharing the wounds we carry.

Often people try to supplement affirmation for blessings. We'll work towards a contradiction. We'll try to DO things to get people to tell us that we're worthwhile people regardless of what we do. That approach then devalues the blessing someone gives us. "People wouldn't like me if I didn't do X." or "I have to accomplish Y to have any value."

If you're reading this, pause for a moment, and take the time to let somebody know that you think they're swell. Go out and bless someone in whatever way is comfortable for you. If it helps, pretend you've been tricked, and click here Infared's thread is a great starting point.

To be safe

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Safety, in this context, is freedom from anxiety. You could also call it "security", but again, I like safety because it has a more personal tone to it.

Anxiety is a huge deal, in multiple ways.

I think of anxiety as "generalized fear". If you fear something, it's specific, its a threat, it has a name. Anxiety, though, doesn't need to have a name and can appear in many different forms. Often, if we find ourselves worrying or fearful about a bunch of small things, it's because they're just tiny shoots of a larger, more general anxiety hiding beneath the surface.

This is a huge topic all on it's own, but I can list some ways that I try to find safety in my life.

1) Accept that anxieties will happen, in yourself and others, and there is nothing wrong when they coming up.
* Anxiety is a way to avoid danger. Originally, that danger was something like a sudden lion attack, eating away at your face, or being kicked out of your tribe, which would result in certain death in the wild. It's a natural occurrence, and in the right context it can drive us to seek places of security.

2) When anxieties do occur, be understanding.
* I am not myself when I feel overly anxious. I am literally less able to think rationally and clearly, and this is true for everyone. The neurotransmitter that the brain inhibits while feeling anxious is the same neurotransmitter that is critical to logical, reasoned thought. This means I can expect myself, and others to be short-term-irrational when these anxieties fire off. This is also why almost all of the tips for managing anxieties involve techniques that will help your body process the chemicals and reestablish the normal equilibrium present in your brain.

3) Deliberately affirm areas in your life where you don't feel secure.
* Because anxieties are so general, they will often overlap areas where you actually do have a lot of safety. For example, I have a decent amount of social anxiety in unfamiliar situations - but if I can take time to affirm the secure relationships I have, then that feeling of safety will cross over into areas where I would otherwise feel alone or ostracized.

4) Confront your anxieties in safe places with people you trust.
* This is the direct application of #3. When you're at a safe place, a place where you can think through things rationally, you can take the time to tackle some of the underlying fears you have. This might take the form of a meeting with a trusted counselor, where you talk about and reflect on issues you wouldn't otherwise. It could also take the form of a planned out experience, like walking over a tall but stable bridge, or going into a bookstore and deliberately striking up a conversation with 3 strangers. Whatever the case, the point is that you are gaining an experience to help teach your brain that "This is not a dangerous situation." "I am not going to be eaten by a lion if I do this."

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Anxiety can take lots of forms - and it will crop up anytime we feel that these needs are threatened.

Just like the rest of these needs. You can't make them by yourself. You can't become "safe" alone. You will, for all of these, need to rely on others.

And that can be the scariest part.

To be touched

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This one I find the most interesting. I tend to think of people, especially myself, as mental automata. If I keep my cells alive, and then think the right thoughts, everything should be good.

The need to be touched flies right in the face of that.

The way that other people touch or do not touch us fundamentally affects our perceptions of ourselves. We, as human beings, innately need physical affirmation from fellow people.

Affectionate touch is immensely important for healthy development in infants. Why should we expect it to no longer be so for adults?

To be clear, Affectionate touch has nothing to do with sexual touch. Just as affection can be present or absent from sex, it can be present or absent from touch as well.

Studying the need to be touched reveals a blend of behavior and biochemistry. Hormone levels change, feelings of acceptance and self-worth develop, and people are more likely to seek out contact with others.

Of course this is also a need that many people feel very uncomfortable with. There are a lot of social warning signals that fire off if a hand shake doesn't end right or if a hug lasts too long. People hate inviting affectionate touch when they don't trust the person delivering it. I think our unease with affection directly relates to its importance in our sense of well-being. Just as we view a kind word from a stranger with skepticism, we experience the same incredulity when offered that touch.

But if this is something we need, and we reject it from most people, who can we get it from?

This is a reoccurring theme will each of these needs. For most of them, the person who ideally fulfills them is our caretaker. So much about ourselves is decided by our relationships with our caretakers. Being rejected by a parent, or loved one hurts so much more and so much deeper than when it comes from anyone else. It shapes our securities and directs our attitudes for all future interactions. The point to take away here, however, isn't that our caretakers are at fault - they were sculpted in the same way. The point is that these unfulfilled needs and the flaws that come with them are a universal and natural part of being human.

The question is how do we work with what we have?

To be chosen

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Everyone wants to be wanted.

If I'm running a class, and I start a game where students pick teams. I try to forecast who the last to be picked are and make them the team captains. It's crazy to see how differently someone acts when you tell them "I want you to be in charge of this." Even if the the assignment is a literal chore kids will want to care of it because you picked them to do it. Those kids who normally are picked last are often the ones dragging their feet, but choose them first and they are fully engaged and trying to get everyone else on board.

Being chosen plays a huge role in romantic relationships. A person wants to be picked out by another. To know that they have been selected for a special, unique connection. It's why people enjoy the grandiose gestures or the daily reminders of affection - its a traditional way of letting someone know that you have, and continue to pick them first. Of course traditional is a very small subset of all people, and certainly not the generalization I want to make here, but I do want to invoke the image of being chosen, intimately selected by another person. It feels good. It validates and brings with it the promise of other needs being fulfilled.

(Imagine the twisted nature of the relationship where someone is chosen by another, but is never affirmed, never listened to, never touched, never blessed. It's abusive, and yet, people find themselves locked in relationships just like that. It shows the power of being chosen, and the fear of rejection.)

I'm really proud to get to join in a community where outright rejection is not an issue. People can and should feel like they are wanted by the people here, not because they've done anything special, but simply because they are who they are.

Which leads into the last need.

To be included

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Being included is a lot like being chosen, but where being chosen is about an individual pulling you out from the crowd, being included is about a crowd bringing you in.

We like to be a part of something larger than ourselves. Look at the proliferation of "fandoms" throughout the internet. People can connect with others with similar interest, they can immediately know they belong because they enjoy the same things. This is also something people are particular about. You may enjoy the Avengers movies just as much as the next person, but you don't want to say you're a part of the "Fandom" because that's not the group you want to be included in.

Humans do very poorly in isolation. There's a reason loneliness is a real issue we have to deal with.

I've often found myself sitting at home, too tired to go anywhere and yet, I'm discontent. I will feel like I'm lacking something but I don't know what it is. Then the realization dawns on me..."I'm feeling lonely."

Some days I will take that feeling and think "okay yeah, but I'll just have to deal with it for now." Others I'll decide, "Okay good now that I know, I'm calling up some friends and we are having a game night." We play games, joke about whatever comes up and when everyone goes home I'll sit and think...wow...I don't feel lousy anymore. Nothing's changed, I didn't make any emotional breakthroughs, I certainly didn't accomplish anything, but I feel better.

(There is a reason the Sims have a social meter. It's not just so you have to juggle one more need to keep them from freaking out in the basement.)

Honestly the community here has been incredibly helpful in relieving feelings of loneliness, though I do find face-to-face socializing more reviving at times, but I suspect that is mostly me.

Regardless, I'm glad to be back in the mix.

If you’ve managed to plow through these 3000+ words of rambling thoughts and advice, first off- Thank you! I've been wanting to share these thoughts for awhile. I know it isn't an easy read, partly because the topic is so broad but also because I tend to skip over things when writing - It's not the most helpful combination.

Secondly, tell me how I’m wrong, or if something that you read struck a chord with you, good or bad, share it with me! Just snip out the quote or part you liked or hated and we’ll talk about it. Or Don’t! It’s up to you!

While hashing through this, I’ve noticed a lot of things and underlying themes that I hadn’t before. It's clear these 7 groups have lots of overlap, but like I’ve said, they're just tools. They may be helpful ways to think about things, or not. But I do hope that somehow, this can help bring a little bit of clarity to all our crazy feels.

I'm both tired and rather distracted so I sadly don't feel quite up to adding more thoughts to the conversation but I'd like to say that those were some neat words btp, thank you for the post!

Hey btp! I needed some of these self-care good vibes today. Like, a lot. I'm glad that you're sharing your thoughts and experiences.

I do have one thing to add (not really as a counterpoint to your post, but more about my personal recent thoughts on the subject of self-care). I think it's important to recognize that others have these needs too. Especially on the internet, it's easy to discount others' experiences, to fail to see the other side of a joke, or just to consider others like lines of text and monolithic symbols. Part of fulfilling our own needs is to help others fulfill theirs too. It can be difficult to reach out, or it may sometimes seem appropriate, but 9 times out of 10 a gesture of kindness will hit the mark and have a positive impact, even if it doesn't appear so at first.

Yay for healthy, collaborative communities <3

an ongoing thing i have trouble with:

how do i stay committed to a large project once i've started it?

I've had this trouble in the past and the things that helped for me were a) medication and b) doing smaller version of said project (mine have mostly been comics) then once i feel like i have a handle on finishing things, moving onto the larger one. Even if that means putting the large one on hold for a while! I'm also motivated by the fact that i feel like i can't show people half finished thing, and i have absolutely nothing complete to share; i want to prove myself, i guess? and i'm damn well going to finish something no matter what.

Basically going for a quantity>quality approach, because otherwise i get stuck focusing on fine details or feeling like i'm not skilled enough and just spinning in circles.

i am having a really, really, really bad day. None of my usual calming down tactics are working at all and I don't know what to do

@Mirdini- Thank you!

@sfou - Also Thank you!

I think it's important to recognize that others have these needs too.

Absolutely!

Often it is easier to recognize needs in others than it is in yourself. Daniel Kahneman describes it as the "Water Cooler Effect". Oddly enough, this is because it easier to see people as just lines of text? I'm not saying this is right, just that it is a natural fallacy. The brain always makes conclusions. It is a conclusion making machine and it never says: "I don't have all the information, I should just stop thinking about this." It always and automatically makes assumptions.

Like if all you see is a post that has 1) someone's name and 2) a comment in support of thing X, your brain automatically fills in everything it can about that person based solely on those few lines of text.

Where this really becomes a problem is when "thing X" is something that you really don't like. Now, as far as your brain is concerned, you have just discovered a person who's entire existence revolves around "thing X"! Often you will respond accordingly with "thing Y" - which then makes yourself, to the brains of those reading your comment, the physical embodiment of "thing Y", and they respond accordingly.

So obviously when left unchecked this fallacy leads to problems. BUT it can also be used in a way that helps you enrich and empathise with people, if you work off of the assumption like you said, that others have the same needs you do, then you can go through that checklist and try to figure out, "What need are they trying to fullfill?" Your brain will jump to assumptions, and yeah they might be wrong, but it will be an assumption that puts the person who wrote that line of text in a more human light, and maybe even help you understand more about yourself.

So yeah! I'm just echoing what you've said, and adding a bit as well!

@Loather

how do i stay committed to a large project once i've started it?

Spoilered because of WORDS:

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You are in good company here. I'm probably just going to echo some of what Plaid has said - but take her advice to heart - in terms of creative projects, she's done WAY more than me.

A really hard, but also really helpful thing to do is to figure out what your normal is when it comes to certain types of projects. When starting a big project people (myself included) almost always underestimate how much or how quickly it will finish, but if you're able ask yourself, "objectively, how have I done on similar projects like this in the past?" You can often get a more reliable prediction on how a new project will go.

The problem is, a lot of the time, the answer to the "how have I done in the past." is "Poorly."

It's hard to be okay with that, but I encourage you to. If you set unreasonable goals for yourself, then you're almost guaranteed to fail from the start. But if you know what your normal is, and set a goal just slightly above that, the chances of having a victory and getting a little more out of something becomes a lot greater.

The other important part about that reflection is that you'll might notice things that helped you individually. For reals, everyone is different. I recently read through jack_fractals "All Night Laundry" (one of the adventures that recently started posting to the forum). He had a really inspiring post about finally deciding to start a project, and setting up rules for himself like "I'm only working on this thing for this amount of time." and just trying to get something out there even if it wasn't perfect. I really enjoyed reading what he had to say, but I also know that what worked for him would not work for me as well. Or at least it wouldn't produce the same results.

That being said, it never helps to look at what works for other people! (and then shamelessly STEAL what works for you)

As for what has worked for me, I think I'll make a list, because that seems like a sort of list-able thing.

1) Block out chunks of time for long projects
* This has to do with setting goals. A long project is a Long-Term Goal and you have to approach Long-Term Goals differently than short term goals. Typically, something is a Long-Term Goal if you cannot complete it in one sitting. In that case, don't make "I will complete this thing" your goal. Make "I will spend x amount of time working on this" your goal. (Actually that's pretty important so I'll give it it's own spot on the list.)

2) Make your goal to "work on it for X amount of time"
* See the idea is to set attainable goals. Brains love accomplishing goals. Don't believe me? Pick some easy/innane thing like "My goal is to stand up!", then do it! You have a tiny feeling of satisfaction, like you accomplished something, and it's encouraging get back into it again. (This is also a helpful way to get into exercising). So if you make your goal: I'm going to spend x amount of time on something, then even if you don't finish that something you will have still accomplished your goal.

3) Give yourself time to reflect
* This is mission critical for any big project for me. If I want something to succeed I need to periodically check up on it. Just set aside a specific time, and look over, "Did I meet the goals I set? Why or why not? Am I happy with where this is going? How does this fit into the rest of my schedule? What should my next steps be?" Doing this can really help shrink down the hugeness of a large project into a manageable size, and help me deal with problems that have come up along the way.

4) Have a simple checklist of things you do when you pick the project up again.
* So checklists are nice for lots of reasons, but one important one is that they can help you build habits that get you in the right mindset for your project. Like, people often talk about a "bedtime routine", a few things that you do every night to tell yourself, "okay I'm about to go to sleep now." Well, having a "project routine" can be just as helpful. It could be something silly like, "I'll have a glass of water and sit down at this new table and then shut my eyes for 30 seconds.", but more often it will be the natural things you'd do when picking that project up again.

5) Be okay with not finishing it, if you have to.
* This one is a mixed bag, but sometimes I find myself taking on way too much - often due to poor planning, or not realizing how much time I actually have. When that happens, I have to let some things go. It might be a project that I was really excited about in the past, but is now added to the pile of "incompletes". Regardless, if you find that you need to do this, try and take some time to reflect on it. Figure out why this project tapered out, because, chances are, there will be a similar project that excites you in the future, and you can use your challenges with this one to help prepare you for the next.

i am having a really, really, really bad day. None of my usual calming down tactics are working at all and I don't know what to do

First off, Hi! I saw you introduce yourself but I don't think I have actually greeted you yet! So welcome!

So, forum-thread advice is very limited in it's ability to help out in media res. Honestly, IRC is little better, and then skype or discord can help out even more. Basically, reach out, connect with people you trust, let them know what is going on and get some real-time honest to goodness people listening to what ails ya.

The cool thing about this is that, nobody has all the answers, (I often look at myself and think...oh crap, I'm an adult now...and I don't know anything) But, in a group, with people with different experiences and perspectives, and if people are generally wanting to be helpful, you can find a lot of understanding that you might not have expected otherwise.

That being said, if you want to elaborate on how you're feeling or what's going on, then please do! The process of just typing out and thinking through how you feel is cathartic in itself. Like, what are the usual ways you like to calm down, and what's made this day worse than others? And if you're feeling like the worst has passed, what helped you get through it? I know I could use the advice.

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Wall.

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So I guess I just feel kinda sucky in general. Boy, where to begin?

Mostly I feel trapped by the amount of work I could be doing, but.... I'm not. I'm sitting around and doing what amounts to nothing. I'm starting to sleep a lot. My grades are slipping a little.

I suppose I can pool my work into two categories; stuff I do for school, and stuff I do for my creative outputs, namely, my adventure, and my ask blog. Those are the manifestations of my will to draw and to write right now. And I feel like it's poop. Its been over a year since I started Great Haven and already my art has improved a lot, but I update it so infrequently that it feels like I shouldn't even bother. And should I bother? Damn right I should, because the creative process isn't to let something you've poured hours into just die, you're supposed to, at the very least, see things to completion! I love the world I'm building, and I love the direction that the story is going, and I love drawing and working on it in general, so why is it that I don't want to do the very simple steps it would take to push that endeavor forward?

I guess if I look at it on the base level that btp laid out for us, I don't feel affirmed here, I don't feel chosen here, and I don't feel included here. And there are plenty of reasons for that, I'm sure. I could go the "blame myself" route for an explanation, knowing that I don't post here very much, and naturally, I would have less of a presence here in this community as a result. I hate reading walls of text, so I don't read any of the text adventures or join any of the intimidatingly large Grand Battles; I'll just let those slide past the peripherals of my being, and in the grand scheme of things, that's not such a terrible thing. What about, say, the incredibly long adventures of the people who have made their peg in the community, who have dozens of readers and hundreds of pages? ....Welp, each of those respective things will take days to read, so I guess I'll never get around to it. Oh well. How about... any of the threads in the chat sections, where people literally just sit down and talk about whatever? Ehh, jumping into a conversation as it's progressing is hard, so I'd rather just watch. Nobody will miss me. Wanna hop in the IRC channel? ......Nah. It's either dead quiet, or the current conversation is about nothing that interests me.

So I've run into a problem, then. Something unique to this area of my life, on the internet, and on eagle time. The community that I've idolized over the years and so desperately wanted to reach out to and touch and cling to again, for old time's sake, just like I did back when everybody was doing their thing on the MSPA forums, and I was among them. But how can I expect to get something from a community that I won't even give to? And I feel like that's a selfish, skin-deep desire to have, to want to have people AT THE VERY LEAST read what I create, and talk about it, and make it a part of their lives just as I've made it mine. But that's what everybody wants, isn't it? It sucks. I want that more than anything, and I can't even fulfill that same need for someone else. I'd rather just give up for today and go back to sleep.

Thanks for making this thread. Your advice rings true.

For what it's worth, earthexe, I've enjoyed Great Haven even if I don't suggest in it often. I should probably be saying that more.

You noted in the "say nice things" thread that I'm productive. (And I found your post there really gratifiying in general) Part of that is just that I don't worry too much about finishing a particular project. I just try to think of what I can do today, and sometimes that's not even for a purpose beyond, well, writing something today that I didn't write yesterday.

Right now I'd describe my life as in something of a holding pattern. Thing is, it's a better holding pattern than I was in a few years ago, before I started writing regularly. I still feel kind of directionless from time to time, but it helps me a little that I can say, with confidence, "I love writing".

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it can be helpful to figure out just what you really feel passionate about, and learn to enjoy doing it even if you're not working in any particular direction.

This may just be babbling because it's 1 AM and I've been telling people which rules their posts break for a few hours, but if it helps, let me just say right out that you're always welcome here.

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I hadn't even read the third sentence in that post before I had to turn around, throw myself to the bed and cry about how happy I was to hear those words.

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

im alive.

Fogel, I suppose my "method" isn't so different from yours; the way you say you operate is extremely familiar. I guess we should take that however we will.

, that reminds me of the way I output my creativity when I was still active on the MSPA forums all those years ago. I never really settled on anything, and when updating became a chore, I started something new. No harm, no fowl. Great Haven is different, though; it definitely feels like something I've decidedly settled on. Port Rhodia also saw that breif spark of creativity that comes with starting something new, but in the end, it's also part of the Great Haven universe. So I guess this is my thing now.

Fehhh. Thank you so much for the love and advice, though, guys. Even if it was only two of you, I still feel infinitely better about where I and my works stand. Friendship powerrrrrrrrrrrrr

@p - Thank you! Really it probably sounds like a book because most of it comes from a few? It also comes from a few years of my own counseling and spending time with people who work in addiction recovery.

That last part might sound weird, but oftentimes people who fall into addictive behaviors or habits do so due to circumstances that affect everyone. When people start to struggle against those addictions, one of the best tools they can have is to build an understanding of where their hurts come from, and why they feel the way they do. There is rarely a clear answer to those questions, but a lot of people, much smarter than myself have spent a lot of time trying to make it easier for others to sort that out.

I wouldn't say this advice is infinitely useful, though. That's actually the point of this thread. No one person has all of the answers, but the things we struggle with are often universal enough that one or more of us has been through or is going through something similar. There are a lot of talented, articulate people here. By talking together, maybe we can sort some of this out.

A counselor once told me that, In school, we're taught about history, math, english, and science, but we're never taught how to cope.

@earthexe:

You really got me thinking! Reading through this I realized that I start to speak pretty generally in a few places, so as with everything here, take it with a grain of salt. I don't claim to be an expert, and unfortunately, I know very little about your personal situation, so if I say something that strikes you as a "bad idea", it likely is.

Hey! I saw you post in the complements thread the other day and I immediately felt nervous. I was thinking, "oh gosh I really hope what I had to say was helpful." There's this secret fear that I'll unintentionally give HORRIBLE advice, so to suddenly realize someone is in the middle of reading something you wrote can be a little nerve wracking.

But I say that, really as a huge thank you! Both for reading and responding the way you did. You certainly aren't alone in feeling the way you do. The last time we talked, I think was on IRC a few weeks ago and your cheerfulness there really brightened my day.

So yesterday, I sat down with my wife (She'll probably hop on here sometime), and we read through Great Haven. I'm not going to go into a full-on thing here but I did notice, 1) Your ability as an artist has grown substantially! 2) Your protagonist is great, and conveys a sort of nervous fun. My favorite scene has to be when Blue Turtle picks him up and suddenly you get a feeling for just how SMALL he is compared to everyone. And doing that makes the world seem all the bigger! 3) The world, and story is in itself very interesting, and I'm curious what you have planned for it. And all in all it took about half an hour to go through it, and we both really enjoyed it.

Cool Adventures aside, When I read your post here I could really empathize with you. On some basic level I've shared those feelings you described during my first few years with this community. And I agree that, even though it's not the community's fault, it is really hard to figure out what to do.


A few years ago, I reached a point where I decided that I needed to break away from the group here. For many reasons, I felt the need to press a "reset" button on my life and goals and when I weighed everything out, the insecurity that I felt in struggling to find approval in an online community was not something I needed to take with me.

So I spent some time looking to find stability on my own. I went through a couple of relationships, both romantic and otherwise. Found joy and failures both in my work and friendships, and spent a decent amount of time working on my own outlook on things. Eventually, I reached a point of stability (or so it seems) that allowed me to, one, meet and support a beautiful young lady, but also allow me to feel that, you know what, really I want to hang out with these guys again.

This is getting a little off topic, but I do want to say a thank you to anyone who is reading this. Coming back to this community was really like walking back to a group of old friends. It feels, in many ways, like I never left. I had no small amount of anxiety in popping back in, and not once have I felt unwelcome or judged for leaving. So thank you all.

I bring up my own experience, not to say you should take a break (I certainly hope you don't unless you need to!), but to emphasize how interconnected IRL health and Online health are. The internet is an amazing connective tool. You can find like-minded people, share experiences, thoughts, and ideas across continents and cultures. But, it is (in my experience) no substitute for the social and emotional fulfillment that real-world interactions can provide.

For myself, at least, I'm able to enjoy the people here more because I rely on them less to fulfill my emotional needs. I'm not saying that I don't find fulfillment here, I absolutely do, but during the times in my life where the online community was my sole source of creative and social fulfillment - I felt like a thirsty man, trying to lap up water from a dripping tap.

When someone is looking to fill a need, occasionally they'll try to get it from a person who simply is not capable of providing it. This can lead to a feeling of desperation and discontent. The desire to fulfill that need is there, but it never seems full. It almost always means that something has to change.

Now, this is where my advice can start to fall flat, because there are two directions to take this. You can seek affirmation elsewhere, or you can try to delve deeper into the relationships you have. In the past, I defaulted for the former, without really trying to do the latter.

I think that the best answer, is a combination of the two with a touch of self-reflection on "why do I feel this way?" added into the mix. Seek out encouraging, engaging face-to-face relationships, while connecting more with the community and staying honest with yourself about how you're feeling.

-----

Ostensibly, Eagle-Time is about artists and storytellers who want to make art and tell stories - but, really, that just isn't the case!

If this community is working right, then your approval or acceptance in it has nothing to do with what you do or don't create or who or what you identify with. You're here, and you're you. As long as you don't go out of your way to be rude or hurtful to others, you'll be appreciated simply for who you are.

You have freedom to create. But more importantly, you have freedom to NOT create. Choosing the latter does not devalue you. It does not make you 'less'. If you want to sleep in all day and do nothing GO FOR IT! (it probably isn't the healthiest option but if you do it, then OWN it!) If you want to create and weave a story you have building inside of you do so because it brings you joy!

Let encouragement encourage you, but don't rely on it to drive you. Let silence be silence, and don't give weight to words never spoken. Most importantly, be you! The things you make and the stories you tell are good because you've told them. It is never the other way around.

Really, you've already done something that past-me never even considered. You reached out to find support. Honestly, I find it inspiring.


I want to share two quotes here. One is from jack_fractal (author of All Night Laundry) and I've posted it on the forum before, but dang I will put it here because I think it's encouraging hear from someone who has managed to update an adventure every day for the last 3 years.

SpoilerShow

About the art.

When I initially started this adventure four and a half months ago, it was at the end of a long period of psyching myself up to do something like this.

How long you might ask?

Since I was sixteen.

I've wanted to do a comic, or something like it, on the internet, since I was in grade ten.

I'm twenty eight. It took me twelve years.

Initially, this adventure was going to be done in 3D, but 3D modelling takes a fantastic amount of time up front, and I spent a VERY long time mostly not-working on those models.

You know, that thing where you trick yourself into thinking that you're working on something but you're really just -thinking- about working on it, and you spend very little time doing the work?

I was doing that.

Twelve years of that.

And also that thing where you say to yourself, "I really like this idea, I want to save it until I'm better at art so I don't ruin it."

I did a lot of that too.

So one day, I was talking to my friend over skype, and I realized that I was never going to do this. Ever. Unless I started that day. Right then. So I decided to ditch the 3D idea decided to do it with drawings. It would be slower overall, but it would let me start now, which is what I needed to do.

So what did I do? I did not start that day. Of course I didn't.

Instead, I went out for a nice dinner with another one of my friends, came home, and had a panic attack.

The next day I was able, finally, to start it. I was only able to do it by tricking myself into it. I laid down a set of rules. I'm good at rules.

I would not spend more then three minutes drawing a character, I would not spend more then ten minutes drawing a background, and I would post daily. No exceptions. Not even if I was really tired, or sick, or if what I was posting was terrible.

I would post, daily, until I was finished the story.

And it has worked, so far.

It didn't look very good, but I didn't care. I was working under ridiculous time constraints. What did I -think- it was going to look like?

And that was how I tricked myself into doing this, and why the first chapter looks the way it does.

I spend more then three minutes on a character now, and more then ten minutes on a background. To be honest, I always did, I always cheated, but having the clock helped.

The clock said, "You are doing this, and it's only going to take three minutes, and at the end of those three minutes you're going to have something finished that you're going to show people and it won't be perfect but it will be good, and that is enough. You're allowed to not care."

"And maybe it won't take three minutes, maybe it will take eight minutes, or twelve minutes, or 45 minutes, but I can promise you one thing."

"It will not take you twelve years."

Perfection has always been the enemy of done. For me, it has often, also, been the enemy of started.

I liked that clock. Some days I miss it.

This other one, comes from a guy named Kyle Lake. I like to read over it anytime I'm wanting to remind myself to find joy in the day to day. There's a bit of a story behind why I find it particularly potent - maybe I will share it later.

SpoilerShow

“Live. And Live Well.

BREATHE. Breathe in and Breathe deeply.

Be PRESENT. Do
not be past. Do not be future. Be now.

On a crystal clear, breezy 70 degree day,
roll down the windows and

FEEL the wind against your skin. Feel the warmth of
the sun.

If you run, then allow those first few breaths on a cool Autumn day to

FREEZE your lungs and do not just be alarmed, be ALIVE.

Get knee-deep in a novel
and LOSE track of time.

If you bike, pedal HARDER and if you crash then crash
well.

Feel the SATISFACTION of a job well done-a paper well-written, a project
thoroughly completed, a play well-performed.

If you must wipe the snot from your
3-year old's nose, don't be disgusted if the Kleenex didn't catch it all

because soon he'll be wiping his own.

If you've recently experienced loss, then
GRIEVE. And Grieve well.

At the table with friends and family, LAUGH.

If you're
eating and laughing at the same time, then might as well laugh until you puke.

And if you eat, then SMELL.

The aromas are not impediments to your day. Steak on
the grill, coffee beans freshly ground, cookies in the oven.

And TASTE.

Taste every ounce of flavor.

Taste every ounce of friendship.

Taste every ounce of Life.

Because-it-is-most-definitely-a-Gift.”

I dunno how to even begin to respond to this, btp. But I can say that the reception was very, very good.

Granted, I'm in a much better mood today than I was when I wrote that. But. gosh, I really don't think I've ever been as excited to read something in my life; I was caught in between my laptop and running through my kitchen to clean things. I would have done that anyways, but I was giggling the whole way though, and excitedly rushing back to see what the next paragraph had to say after I got done fawning over the previous. You set down an entire half hour just to read my adventure, with your wife. Jesus, that's powerful. First of all, I'm really glad you enjoyed it, and second of all, that's cute as all hell. It really, really brightened my day to hear that. Thank you.

The other thing that got to me was this: I probably AM putting too much thought into how much I am (or am not) using my time. And that's a really profound statement to make, given how many reasons there are to think otherwise, be it from society or other sources. And I haven't really been making a point to enjoy myself and focus less on the negatives in life, I suppose. And when you pointed that out, though indirectly, that was like a second weight lifted up from my chest. What a strange way to describe what I felt. Immediate gratification and ease.

Gah, it just feels so good! Stupidly good. I'm grinning ear to ear like an idiot.

Thank you guys so much.

Man, I forgot how helpful a good nights rest can be.

I think it's time we talk some politics and perspective.

I found myself up late on nov 8th, like a lot of folks. I was feeling a little dejected, having had an argument with my wife (not over politics in the specific, but over our ability to talk about it constructively - Agreeing to disagree and Agreeing to ignore are not the same thing)

And then it seemed like the whole world turned on its head.

I hopped on discord for a bit, bemoaned my disappointed expectations, and signed off to garner some sleep for the classes I had ahead.

When I woke up, I indulged in my own form of binging: buying up domain names.

I'm not sure what to do with trump.claims yet. In the meantime, like most of my domains, it redirects to the tricked thread, which is appropriate in its own way.


On a forum like eagle-time we've tended to stay away from political topics, largely because the internet is a diverse place and we want to encourage that diversity by avoiding topics that people can find threatening. At this juncture however, for me at least, it's time to put things out into the open and move forward.

I think wheat hit on the first and most important part of how to go forward - reaffirm yourself and your relationships.

My wife rocks. So freaking much. I have spent these last two days with a kind and compassionate woman who has made it her mission to care for me and calm my anxieties. Having someone near to reaffirm and ground myself has been the single most healing thing I could have experienced.

If you're at a place where you don't feel grounded, where you find yourself shaking at the thought of what the world may hold, take the advice so many people have been giving out. Stop and seek out people who can reaffirm you, people who can ground you and remind you that really, everything is alright.

And of course, if you see someone who needs that grounding, reach out to them and let them know it's going to be okay. Let them vent and shake and cry and be patient as they come down to rest.

The next thing though, is that it is time to talk.

Let's get those fears and frustrations out in the open. I know, for myself at least, that the simple act of speaking and being heard is a real need right now, and I hope that others will be interested in joining in.

I think too, that as we begin to talk and sort things out, we'll begin to realize that the world is not as dangerous or derisive as we may feel. For me, it's been an exercise in imagining people complexly. It may be a struggle, but struggles have a way of building us into better people. So lets start with that.

I think it's high time I stop hiding in Discord when it comes to my problems. Unfortunately I really suck when it comes to actually facing them. Perhaps it's a bit despicable of me to say this but I really

I'll save my insecurities for another time. Instead, there's someone I care about. I care about him so much that it emotionally pains me whenever he tells me that something happened. His life is so unfair, everything keeps going wrong for him and he's had it rough compared to me who's lived a rather cushy life thanks to my dad being in the military. He had a rough start in another community along with a bunch of failed ventures so his self-esteem is so cripplingly-low that I'm absurdly concern about him. I try to chat with him the best I can, but alas that's as far as I can go and I'm starting to get worn down with how he views himself (that's compounded with his horrible luck in life). I can't always be there to chat with him, and I can't always worry about people on the internet (not just him) to the point that I'm less concerned about people IRL.

I want to help him, I really do, all he needs is a good community. Alas, his time in a previous community wasn't the best and he's now twice-shy. I'm determined to bring him here, hoping that I can persuade him to give Eagle-Time a chance. I know you guys can be the best, this place is already much more different in atmosphere than his last one and hopefully he'll feel much better. He has a lot of talent in him but circumstances drive him otherwise, which is unfair because I'm just squandering mine with poor time management.

I want to make him feel better about himself, that he's not the person he keeps self-depreciating as. He also has a Discord account, just letting ya'll know. I hope he won't immediately back away out of past scars and hold the same impressions as ever. He deserves so much better, like so many other people out there, but this man's the closest.