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The Problems Thread - Printable Version

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The Problems Thread - btp - 03-16-2016

This thread is a place for Eagle-Timers looking for advice, help, or guidance on whatever ails ya.

The flipping tables thread is mainly a venting platform and conciliatory remarks might not be what a poster there wants. However, it's certainly no fun reading through sometimes pained statements made by the cool folks here and not having an unobtrusive recourse to offer support.

So this is for that. We have a solid collection of people here, all who've struggled or are struggling through the rougher seasons of life. If you're feeling frustrated or down and would like to seek some input, feel free to post here. If you have some sweet life-tips that have helped you through rough times, feel free to share them!

As with all places on the forum, friendship is paramount here - keep that in mind when posting!


RE: The Problems Thread - btp - 04-21-2016

So, since posting this, I've seen that I was wrong about the flipping tables thread.

This is a good thing.

A rule thumb, I'm starting to figure out, is that if you want to say something nice or helpful, you don't need worry too much about where you put it.

That being said, I want to share something that, for the last couple of years, has been really helpful for me when I've found myself dealing with conflicts, personal issues, or just general unhappiness.

I'm going to use generalizations - not because they are scientifically true for all people (that would be a laugh), but because I know that my brain is wired to work with generalizations. When I am not feeling 100%, it helps if I can skip past all the "maybes" and "sometimes" and jump straight into what I know helps me.

Really, these are just tools you can use. If you think they might be helpful, then pick them up and use them, but if these tools don't work for you, feel free to set them down and try something else.

Also - and this is the important part - if one of you has some similar tools or principles that have helped you out, it would be great to see them shared here.

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So one set of tools I use for answering "Why do I feel sucky about this?" comes from an idea called the "7 desires of the heart". These desires are fairly universal, and although some are more important than others for different people, it's often better to describe them as needs.

When I find myself feeling "blugh". ("blugh" could be depressed, irritable, ashamed, all sorts of things) this is when I scroll through this checklist and try to figure out just what I feel like I am lacking.

So here is the list:

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seven desires of the heart

To be heard and understood
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To be affirmed
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To be blessed
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To be safe
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To be touched
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To be chosen
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To be included
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If you’ve managed to plow through these 3000+ words of rambling thoughts and advice, first off- Thank you! I've been wanting to share these thoughts for awhile. I know it isn't an easy read, partly because the topic is so broad but also because I tend to skip over things when writing - It's not the most helpful combination.

Secondly, tell me how I’m wrong, or if something that you read struck a chord with you, good or bad, share it with me! Just snip out the quote or part you liked or hated and we’ll talk about it. Or Don’t! It’s up to you!

While hashing through this, I’ve noticed a lot of things and underlying themes that I hadn’t before. It's clear these 7 groups have lots of overlap, but like I’ve said, they're just tools. They may be helpful ways to think about things, or not. But I do hope that somehow, this can help bring a little bit of clarity to all our crazy feels.


RE: The Problems Thread - Mirdini - 04-21-2016

I'm both tired and rather distracted so I sadly don't feel quite up to adding more thoughts to the conversation but I'd like to say that those were some neat words btp, thank you for the post!


RE: The Problems Thread - sfou - 04-22-2016

Hey btp! I needed some of these self-care good vibes today. Like, a lot. I'm glad that you're sharing your thoughts and experiences.

I do have one thing to add (not really as a counterpoint to your post, but more about my personal recent thoughts on the subject of self-care). I think it's important to recognize that others have these needs too. Especially on the internet, it's easy to discount others' experiences, to fail to see the other side of a joke, or just to consider others like lines of text and monolithic symbols. Part of fulfilling our own needs is to help others fulfill theirs too. It can be difficult to reach out, or it may sometimes seem appropriate, but 9 times out of 10 a gesture of kindness will hit the mark and have a positive impact, even if it doesn't appear so at first.

Yay for healthy, collaborative communities <3


RE: The Problems Thread - Loather - 04-22-2016

an ongoing thing i have trouble with:

how do i stay committed to a large project once i've started it?


RE: The Problems Thread - Plaid - 04-22-2016

I've had this trouble in the past and the things that helped for me were a) medication and b) doing smaller version of said project (mine have mostly been comics) then once i feel like i have a handle on finishing things, moving onto the larger one. Even if that means putting the large one on hold for a while! I'm also motivated by the fact that i feel like i can't show people half finished thing, and i have absolutely nothing complete to share; i want to prove myself, i guess? and i'm damn well going to finish something no matter what.

Basically going for a quantity>quality approach, because otherwise i get stuck focusing on fine details or feeling like i'm not skilled enough and just spinning in circles.


RE: The Problems Thread - Solekii - 04-22-2016

i am having a really, really, really bad day. None of my usual calming down tactics are working at all and I don't know what to do


RE: The Problems Thread - btp - 04-22-2016

@Mirdini- Thank you!

@sfou - Also Thank you!

sfou Wrote:I think it's important to recognize that others have these needs too.
Absolutely!

Often it is easier to recognize needs in others than it is in yourself. Daniel Kahneman describes it as the "Water Cooler Effect". Oddly enough, this is because it easier to see people as just lines of text? I'm not saying this is right, just that it is a natural fallacy. The brain always makes conclusions. It is a conclusion making machine and it never says: "I don't have all the information, I should just stop thinking about this." It always and automatically makes assumptions.

Like if all you see is a post that has 1) someone's name and 2) a comment in support of thing X, your brain automatically fills in everything it can about that person based solely on those few lines of text.

Where this really becomes a problem is when "thing X" is something that you really don't like. Now, as far as your brain is concerned, you have just discovered a person who's entire existence revolves around "thing X"! Often you will respond accordingly with "thing Y" - which then makes yourself, to the brains of those reading your comment, the physical embodiment of "thing Y", and they respond accordingly.

So obviously when left unchecked this fallacy leads to problems. BUT it can also be used in a way that helps you enrich and empathise with people, if you work off of the assumption like you said, that others have the same needs you do, then you can go through that checklist and try to figure out, "What need are they trying to fullfill?" Your brain will jump to assumptions, and yeah they might be wrong, but it will be an assumption that puts the person who wrote that line of text in a more human light, and maybe even help you understand more about yourself.

So yeah! I'm just echoing what you've said, and adding a bit as well!

@Loather

Loather Wrote:how do i stay committed to a large project once i've started it?
Spoilered because of WORDS:
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Solekii Wrote:i am having a really, really, really bad day. None of my usual calming down tactics are working at all and I don't know what to do

First off, Hi! I saw you introduce yourself but I don't think I have actually greeted you yet! So welcome!

So, forum-thread advice is very limited in it's ability to help out in media res. Honestly, IRC is little better, and then skype or discord can help out even more. Basically, reach out, connect with people you trust, let them know what is going on and get some real-time honest to goodness people listening to what ails ya.

The cool thing about this is that, nobody has all the answers, (I often look at myself and think...oh crap, I'm an adult now...and I don't know anything) But, in a group, with people with different experiences and perspectives, and if people are generally wanting to be helpful, you can find a lot of understanding that you might not have expected otherwise.

That being said, if you want to elaborate on how you're feeling or what's going on, then please do! The process of just typing out and thinking through how you feel is cathartic in itself. Like, what are the usual ways you like to calm down, and what's made this day worse than others? And if you're feeling like the worst has passed, what helped you get through it? I know I could use the advice.


RE: The Problems Thread - OTTO - 04-22-2016

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RE: The Problems Thread - Justice Watch - 04-24-2016

Wall.
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Thanks for making this thread. Your advice rings true.


RE: The Problems Thread - Dragon Fogel - 04-24-2016

For what it's worth, earthexe, I've enjoyed Great Haven even if I don't suggest in it often. I should probably be saying that more.

You noted in the "say nice things" thread that I'm productive. (And I found your post there really gratifiying in general) Part of that is just that I don't worry too much about finishing a particular project. I just try to think of what I can do today, and sometimes that's not even for a purpose beyond, well, writing something today that I didn't write yesterday.

Right now I'd describe my life as in something of a holding pattern. Thing is, it's a better holding pattern than I was in a few years ago, before I started writing regularly. I still feel kind of directionless from time to time, but it helps me a little that I can say, with confidence, "I love writing".

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it can be helpful to figure out just what you really feel passionate about, and learn to enjoy doing it even if you're not working in any particular direction.

This may just be babbling because it's 1 AM and I've been telling people which rules their posts break for a few hours, but if it helps, let me just say right out that you're always welcome here.


RE: The Problems Thread - OTTO - 04-24-2016

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RE: The Problems Thread - Justice Watch - 04-24-2016

I hadn't even read the third sentence in that post before I had to turn around, throw myself to the bed and cry about how happy I was to hear those words.

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

im alive.


RE: The Problems Thread - Justice Watch - 04-24-2016

Fogel, I suppose my "method" isn't so different from yours; the way you say you operate is extremely familiar. I guess we should take that however we will.

, that reminds me of the way I output my creativity when I was still active on the MSPA forums all those years ago. I never really settled on anything, and when updating became a chore, I started something new. No harm, no fowl. Great Haven is different, though; it definitely feels like something I've decidedly settled on. Port Rhodia also saw that breif spark of creativity that comes with starting something new, but in the end, it's also part of the Great Haven universe. So I guess this is my thing now.

Fehhh. Thank you so much for the love and advice, though, guys. Even if it was only two of you, I still feel infinitely better about where I and my works stand. Friendship powerrrrrrrrrrrrr


RE: The Problems Thread - btp - 04-25-2016

@p - Thank you! Really it probably sounds like a book because most of it comes from a few? It also comes from a few years of my own counseling and spending time with people who work in addiction recovery.

That last part might sound weird, but oftentimes people who fall into addictive behaviors or habits do so due to circumstances that affect everyone. When people start to struggle against those addictions, one of the best tools they can have is to build an understanding of where their hurts come from, and why they feel the way they do. There is rarely a clear answer to those questions, but a lot of people, much smarter than myself have spent a lot of time trying to make it easier for others to sort that out.

I wouldn't say this advice is infinitely useful, though. That's actually the point of this thread. No one person has all of the answers, but the things we struggle with are often universal enough that one or more of us has been through or is going through something similar. There are a lot of talented, articulate people here. By talking together, maybe we can sort some of this out.

A counselor once told me that, In school, we're taught about history, math, english, and science, but we're never taught how to cope.

@earthexe:

A brief interruption Wrote:You really got me thinking! Reading through this I realized that I start to speak pretty generally in a few places, so as with everything here, take it with a grain of salt. I don't claim to be an expert, and unfortunately, I know very little about your personal situation, so if I say something that strikes you as a "bad idea", it likely is.

Hey! I saw you post in the complements thread the other day and I immediately felt nervous. I was thinking, "oh gosh I really hope what I had to say was helpful." There's this secret fear that I'll unintentionally give HORRIBLE advice, so to suddenly realize someone is in the middle of reading something you wrote can be a little nerve wracking.

But I say that, really as a huge thank you! Both for reading and responding the way you did. You certainly aren't alone in feeling the way you do. The last time we talked, I think was on IRC a few weeks ago and your cheerfulness there really brightened my day.

So yesterday, I sat down with my wife (She'll probably hop on here sometime), and we read through Great Haven. I'm not going to go into a full-on thing here but I did notice, 1) Your ability as an artist has grown substantially! 2) Your protagonist is great, and conveys a sort of nervous fun. My favorite scene has to be when Blue Turtle picks him up and suddenly you get a feeling for just how SMALL he is compared to everyone. And doing that makes the world seem all the bigger! 3) The world, and story is in itself very interesting, and I'm curious what you have planned for it. And all in all it took about half an hour to go through it, and we both really enjoyed it.

Cool Adventures aside, When I read your post here I could really empathize with you. On some basic level I've shared those feelings you described during my first few years with this community. And I agree that, even though it's not the community's fault, it is really hard to figure out what to do.


A few years ago, I reached a point where I decided that I needed to break away from the group here. For many reasons, I felt the need to press a "reset" button on my life and goals and when I weighed everything out, the insecurity that I felt in struggling to find approval in an online community was not something I needed to take with me.

So I spent some time looking to find stability on my own. I went through a couple of relationships, both romantic and otherwise. Found joy and failures both in my work and friendships, and spent a decent amount of time working on my own outlook on things. Eventually, I reached a point of stability (or so it seems) that allowed me to, one, meet and support a beautiful young lady, but also allow me to feel that, you know what, really I want to hang out with these guys again.

This is getting a little off topic, but I do want to say a thank you to anyone who is reading this. Coming back to this community was really like walking back to a group of old friends. It feels, in many ways, like I never left. I had no small amount of anxiety in popping back in, and not once have I felt unwelcome or judged for leaving. So thank you all.

I bring up my own experience, not to say you should take a break (I certainly hope you don't unless you need to!), but to emphasize how interconnected IRL health and Online health are. The internet is an amazing connective tool. You can find like-minded people, share experiences, thoughts, and ideas across continents and cultures. But, it is (in my experience) no substitute for the social and emotional fulfillment that real-world interactions can provide.

For myself, at least, I'm able to enjoy the people here more because I rely on them less to fulfill my emotional needs. I'm not saying that I don't find fulfillment here, I absolutely do, but during the times in my life where the online community was my sole source of creative and social fulfillment - I felt like a thirsty man, trying to lap up water from a dripping tap.

When someone is looking to fill a need, occasionally they'll try to get it from a person who simply is not capable of providing it. This can lead to a feeling of desperation and discontent. The desire to fulfill that need is there, but it never seems full. It almost always means that something has to change.

Now, this is where my advice can start to fall flat, because there are two directions to take this. You can seek affirmation elsewhere, or you can try to delve deeper into the relationships you have. In the past, I defaulted for the former, without really trying to do the latter.

I think that the best answer, is a combination of the two with a touch of self-reflection on "why do I feel this way?" added into the mix. Seek out encouraging, engaging face-to-face relationships, while connecting more with the community and staying honest with yourself about how you're feeling.

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Ostensibly, Eagle-Time is about artists and storytellers who want to make art and tell stories - but, really, that just isn't the case!

If this community is working right, then your approval or acceptance in it has nothing to do with what you do or don't create or who or what you identify with. You're here, and you're you. As long as you don't go out of your way to be rude or hurtful to others, you'll be appreciated simply for who you are.

You have freedom to create. But more importantly, you have freedom to NOT create. Choosing the latter does not devalue you. It does not make you 'less'. If you want to sleep in all day and do nothing GO FOR IT! (it probably isn't the healthiest option but if you do it, then OWN it!) If you want to create and weave a story you have building inside of you do so because it brings you joy!

Let encouragement encourage you, but don't rely on it to drive you. Let silence be silence, and don't give weight to words never spoken. Most importantly, be you! The things you make and the stories you tell are good because you've told them. It is never the other way around.

Really, you've already done something that past-me never even considered. You reached out to find support. Honestly, I find it inspiring.


I want to share two quotes here. One is from jack_fractal (author of All Night Laundry) and I've posted it on the forum before, but dang I will put it here because I think it's encouraging hear from someone who has managed to update an adventure every day for the last 3 years.

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This other one, comes from a guy named Kyle Lake. I like to read over it anytime I'm wanting to remind myself to find joy in the day to day. There's a bit of a story behind why I find it particularly potent - maybe I will share it later.
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RE: The Problems Thread - Justice Watch - 04-26-2016

I dunno how to even begin to respond to this, btp. But I can say that the reception was very, very good.

Granted, I'm in a much better mood today than I was when I wrote that. But. gosh, I really don't think I've ever been as excited to read something in my life; I was caught in between my laptop and running through my kitchen to clean things. I would have done that anyways, but I was giggling the whole way though, and excitedly rushing back to see what the next paragraph had to say after I got done fawning over the previous. You set down an entire half hour just to read my adventure, with your wife. Jesus, that's powerful. First of all, I'm really glad you enjoyed it, and second of all, that's cute as all hell. It really, really brightened my day to hear that. Thank you.

The other thing that got to me was this: I probably AM putting too much thought into how much I am (or am not) using my time. And that's a really profound statement to make, given how many reasons there are to think otherwise, be it from society or other sources. And I haven't really been making a point to enjoy myself and focus less on the negatives in life, I suppose. And when you pointed that out, though indirectly, that was like a second weight lifted up from my chest. What a strange way to describe what I felt. Immediate gratification and ease.

Gah, it just feels so good! Stupidly good. I'm grinning ear to ear like an idiot.

Thank you guys so much.


RE: The Problems Thread - btp - 11-11-2016

Man, I forgot how helpful a good nights rest can be.

I think it's time we talk some politics and perspective.

I found myself up late on nov 8th, like a lot of folks. I was feeling a little dejected, having had an argument with my wife (not over politics in the specific, but over our ability to talk about it constructively - Agreeing to disagree and Agreeing to ignore are not the same thing)

And then it seemed like the whole world turned on its head.

I hopped on discord for a bit, bemoaned my disappointed expectations, and signed off to garner some sleep for the classes I had ahead.

When I woke up, I indulged in my own form of binging: buying up domain names.

I'm not sure what to do with trump.claims yet. In the meantime, like most of my domains, it redirects to the tricked thread, which is appropriate in its own way.


On a forum like eagle-time we've tended to stay away from political topics, largely because the internet is a diverse place and we want to encourage that diversity by avoiding topics that people can find threatening. At this juncture however, for me at least, it's time to put things out into the open and move forward.

I think wheat hit on the first and most important part of how to go forward - reaffirm yourself and your relationships.

My wife rocks. So freaking much. I have spent these last two days with a kind and compassionate woman who has made it her mission to care for me and calm my anxieties. Having someone near to reaffirm and ground myself has been the single most healing thing I could have experienced.

If you're at a place where you don't feel grounded, where you find yourself shaking at the thought of what the world may hold, take the advice so many people have been giving out. Stop and seek out people who can reaffirm you, people who can ground you and remind you that really, everything is alright.

And of course, if you see someone who needs that grounding, reach out to them and let them know it's going to be okay. Let them vent and shake and cry and be patient as they come down to rest.

The next thing though, is that it is time to talk.

Let's get those fears and frustrations out in the open. I know, for myself at least, that the simple act of speaking and being heard is a real need right now, and I hope that others will be interested in joining in.

I think too, that as we begin to talk and sort things out, we'll begin to realize that the world is not as dangerous or derisive as we may feel. For me, it's been an exercise in imagining people complexly. It may be a struggle, but struggles have a way of building us into better people. So lets start with that.


RE: The Problems Thread - GuardianTempest - 12-16-2016

I think it's high time I stop hiding in Discord when it comes to my problems. Unfortunately I really suck when it comes to actually facing them. Perhaps it's a bit despicable of me to say this but I really

I'll save my insecurities for another time. Instead, there's someone I care about. I care about him so much that it emotionally pains me whenever he tells me that something happened. His life is so unfair, everything keeps going wrong for him and he's had it rough compared to me who's lived a rather cushy life thanks to my dad being in the military. He had a rough start in another community along with a bunch of failed ventures so his self-esteem is so cripplingly-low that I'm absurdly concern about him. I try to chat with him the best I can, but alas that's as far as I can go and I'm starting to get worn down with how he views himself (that's compounded with his horrible luck in life). I can't always be there to chat with him, and I can't always worry about people on the internet (not just him) to the point that I'm less concerned about people IRL.

I want to help him, I really do, all he needs is a good community. Alas, his time in a previous community wasn't the best and he's now twice-shy. I'm determined to bring him here, hoping that I can persuade him to give Eagle-Time a chance. I know you guys can be the best, this place is already much more different in atmosphere than his last one and hopefully he'll feel much better. He has a lot of talent in him but circumstances drive him otherwise, which is unfair because I'm just squandering mine with poor time management.

I want to make him feel better about himself, that he's not the person he keeps self-depreciating as. He also has a Discord account, just letting ya'll know. I hope he won't immediately back away out of past scars and hold the same impressions as ever. He deserves so much better, like so many other people out there, but this man's the closest.