Murder By The Book - Ender's Game

Basically, look at a particular person's posts (this part is optional if you think you can work from memory), and tell us what you think of that person. Is he scum? Is he town? To what degree and why?

Let Them Eat Votals

Truegreen - 2 (Schazer, Whimbrel)

With 15 alive and active, it takes 8 to lynch and 5 to soft lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 26 at 11:59 PM Mountain Time.

AKUMU DONUT what are your views on the likes of Truegreen, eberron (Akumu don't answer this), Agent, and... the other one of you two I guess. Just... give us some reads okay.

truegreen: unless he explains that damn day start he's scum
eberron: he's probably town tbh solaris's interactions don't really seem like scumbuddying
agent:hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
akumu: p sure they're still town along w/ seedy

cannot do readwall because mobile mafia until next Tuesday woo "confetti"

will try not to be completely useless and will post more
also vote truegreen

ninja'd woops
unvote

Alright, Garuru, you are making some sense.

Though I might point out that while Slorange may have done that pie/nexus thing, he did claim that his power was a one-shot nexus and mentioned nothing of pies. I was correct that he was lying about his power. I thought it sounded a bit too specific, though I guess now that the actual circumstances are revealed my suspicions fell quite far from home.

Right now my reads are all out of whack,

Nova is pretty close to the top of my list right now, mostly because of the implicating implications he made at the start of today with no follow through vote. This seems like it would work well to get rid of an easy mark. I haven't really been making many friends this game.

Schazer is still quite scummy seeming to me but Slorange's death has thrown me off a bit. Still suspicious.

Eberron was pretty close on the list if I remember but still barely registered in my radar and now seems a lot less likely to me because I would see scum as wanting to stir the pot. So I guess, while I am reluctant to say it, he seems town to me.

For everyone else I probably need to go back and read more posts, Especially for some extra evidence on Nova, can't be too sure. Still vaguely suspicious of most people though.

Hello everyone, I'm Chwoka and I'm here to kick ass and probably write some scary books or something.

I've been sort of skim-reading everything that's happened so far, but as of right now I've only managed to reread up to the end of day one. So I'll probably be running a bit behind everybody else for a couple days until I manage to catch up with the thread.

Thoughts on everything so far:

Slorange was my #1 townread for most of the game up until now, not because of his claim, but because multiple people kept tunneling him over basically nothing. (Truegreen and Nova are the ones that immediately come to mind, but there might have been others as well.) This may or may not be a fair assessment of what happened, but it was the impression that I got while I was skim-reading at least.

Mirdini was probably right when he said that there's likely a scum between Akumu and Eberron. Currently leaning towards Eberron because of the whole "getting saved on D1 by a last minute No Lynch vote from Solaris" thing. But I didn't really like a lot of what Akumu was doing on D1 either. Not about to commit any votes to either of them before I've actually finished reading the thread though.

I'll to catch up ASAP, but if anybody has any questions for Chwoka/me before then, I'll try and do my best to answer them.

P.S. Hi Donut! Thanks for reminding me, you're scummy too.

what do you mean by "reads"

"This is my read on this person" i.e. "a list of reads" is a sounding-off of what you'd guess people's alignments are. This can be a surface thing where you just look through an individual's posts and see how helpful/obfuscating/inexperienced/insidious they seem, or you can search for connections between people that make it sound like they're trying not to talk like they know each other. (Most of the time, people know each other because they're in the mafia together).

Anyway, reasons mafia might have killed Slorange:
-he was town
-Mirdini was adamant that he was town
-ergo, getting him mislynched would be really difficult
-scum were paranoid that he wasn't actually a oneshot
-They wanted to make Truegreen+others look terrible (this would be achieved even if Slorange had not been the piemaker)

Reasons why you, Truegreen, might kill him:
-you're a town vigilante and were absolutely certain that he was scum (a valid reason, and a reason why I would not lynch you)
-you're mafia and were not expecting pie antics to implicate you so badly

I'm mostly basing this on your first post today, although the extent to which you're cracking under pressure is pretty eyebrow-raising too.

First note: Can anyone claim they received a pie last night?

Second note (@Garuru): You said you got the Superwatch for all the N2 actions, could you list them for us again?

Hi coldblooded!
i mean, personally i think dini's wrong and in my opinion akumu's town because seedy interaction and eberron's town just from what i've seen with novainteractions and solaris interactions. That's considering that i still think nova's scum.

Before I even look at anything anybody has said so far, eberron was at soft lynch Day One. Eberron would have been lynched if not for the no-lynch vote of known Undercover agent Solaris. There is no way in hell this is some kind of long con to get us to mislynch eberron, they are Undercover for absolutely certain.

Vote: eberron

hhhhh still don't think eberron's scum.

What possible motive could Solaris have had to save eberron's life other than protecting a confederate and keeping Undercover's numbers up?

Anybody who says anything about eberron being townish after this point is scum. If we lynch eberron and it turns out I am wrong I will lynch myself because god-damn.

if you noticed what solaris did before he died(which was "i like truegreen") was basically in my opinion solaris's attempt to implicate truegreen. if you look at d1 the same way i think truegreen and eberron are both town.

oh darn you caught me looks like i'm scum /sarcasm
(still think you and eb are both town)

Implicate eberron by literally saving him from lynch so that we would, if Solaris was themself unmasked at some unspecified later date, lynch eberron by mistake? The dastardly plan is to get eberron lynched by making sure he doesn't get lynched?

As promised, I now firmly declare that donut is Undercover as well.

So what about solaris's last real post before his death buddying truegreen? What do you think about that?

I've been trying to consider that, as far as what we should do on Day 5 after we lynch obvious Undercover agent Aunt "eberron" Early. I get caught up in multiple layers of recursive reasoning, which I believe is known to the inner circle as wine-in-front-of-me. Solaris being shown as Undercover casts their statements in a light that would make one want to first simply take their opposite to be true. But they knew at that point in time that they were almost certainly about to be lynched and flipped, so they would also know that saying positive things about any player would cast aspersions on that player. But they also knew that, etc. etc. It's hard if not impossible to know what number of layers of this recursion is the right one, so it's hard to get any information from it at all.

This doesn't apply to the eberron situation, as Solaris had at that time no reason to believe that they were going to be soon exposed.

Your certainty unnerves me as I believe you may be discounting further possibilities, but I cannot deny you make an interesting point. It does seem more likely than other possibilities.

Though by your own statement on day 1, a Lynch was mathematically better for town than a No Lynch. Which would put Solaris's actions in a new light.

I have an idea how these statements might work together but I would like to hear it, or an equally proficient reason from you.

A lynch was mathematically better for the town than a no-lynch, given no information. I can only strongly assume that Solaris had information on who their Undercover confederates were. If the choice is between No Lynch and the lynch of someone known not to be in Undercover, obviously the lynching is better for Undercover.

The only other possibility is that eberron is not Undercover but somehow their being alive is useful to Undercover, or at least was on Night One. Possibly to draw a wasted vigilante killing? I actually just put a crack of doubt in my own edifice of certainty, but I'm still sticking with it. I would be flabbergasted if I was wrong.

Second note (@Garuru): You said you got the Superwatch for all the N2 actions, could you list them for us again?

I'd love to, but like I said, revealing them would be more helpful to scum than town. Rest assured, there were lots more actions than just Truegreen getting the pie through shenanigans, the possibly scum investigative role I mentioned, and Mirdini being targeted for a kill.

I'm... not sure what you want to know here?

Also, Akumu I like totally get your point re: eberron and would in fact be confident in an eberron lynch! but the reason I want reads on people other than eberron is for like connections and info. you say donut's definitely scum okay that's a good start.

that being said, vote: eberron

nah

i'll continue going down the path of voting the probably scum of watts

vote nova

Yes, that does make sense. The only other red flag I now see is with you automatically condemning all those that disagree with you.

I might suggest the expectations and results garnered from your argument be better off recorded privately rather than announced.

1. you are discouraging alternate opinions that could implicate the roles of others.

2. You threaten to further polarize the community, creating possibly dangerous rifts that can be manipulated by scum.

3. You can easily make an ass of yourself by locking yourself into specific mode of action, even when it becomes quite silly to take that action. A mistake I have also made (See the end of Day 2 in particular).

Your reasoning is rather sound and I am inclined to agree with you, but still hesitant to do so right now, I will not be making any votes until I have time to go back and review past posts.

lol I was really worried when I forgot about the thread and saw I'd missed two pages but I see it was mostly Akumu freaking out

Ok so since I'm getting good vibes from Garu I will acquiesce to his request

From "If this bloke dies we're buttbarged" to "kill it KILL IT WITH PREJUDICE"

Garuru - He had his fun in the beginning, got past whatever was ailing him, and now he's doin' work. Work Mafia has trouble doing, work they don't want to do. Asking pertinent questions, demanding reads from groups of people. And his vote isn't on a hairtrigger like mine :v

Sotek - Normally I keep an eye on quietek, but I trust Mirdini and the one person he pegged was actually a hooligan, so that checks out. Could still be 3P but we've gone through so damn many already.
Akumu - He's being very belligerent, which is usually hard for a baddie to keep up for so long, and he defended our right to D1 lynch so he's ok by me.
Seedy - Seedy was goin' HARD IN THE PAINT there for a while but in a good way kind of. They doled out punishment to several people in a row. So kinda tunneling but if you had six arms and each one had a drill on the end. Good tunneling.

Palamedes - I feel better about Pala than I once did. Not amazing, but better. He's putting in work and doing the same thing I was, trying to get people to scumhunt. He asked donut about the link between me & eb and he tried to get Slorange to talk about something productive.
AgentBlue - Bleghhhh. Nulltells across the board. Gonna have to take a closer look at this one.
Dalm - NO SERIOUSLY WHO THE FUCK IS DALM
Coldblooded - Never really got a read on Chwoka so I'm not sure what to think of the... lizard... armadillo... thing. That said they better speak up right away or it might be time for a lurkerlynch.
Schazer - The whole bit about buddying with Slorange was a bust but the vote for Sol could've been a bussing. Not an intense feeling but I'd like to see her do one of these herself personally.

Whimbrel - I lost track of Whimbrel. I think they're lurking? And I'm at the point where I'm dying to lynch lurkers because in the game I'm running the entire mafia is getting away with it and it only puts in perspective how easy it can be.
Gnauga - See above. Tired of people flakin' out on us yo.
eberron - Akumu has a point. Sol's not stupid but I feel like quickhammering NL to save a buddy is something he might do. And barring D1 newbie mercy I was already getting an itch about their behavior, so.
Truegreen - Not gettin' good vibes from this kid AT ALL, especially now that they've got someone to argue with again. I don't know what happened with that pie business. Actually can I check the goo is that an acceptable command

icanhasdonut - It's really easy and really convenient to beat a dead horse when you're scum. "Oh what happened today? Who are we lynching? That's cool but I STILL HATE THIS GUY I'VE HATED HIM SINCE THE GAME STARTED AND NONE OF THE CHANGING CONDITIONS HAVE ALTERED MY STATE OF MIND. I AM A MAFIA SAMURAI, CUTTING THROUGH THE CHAOS OF THE META." Is pretty much what I get from his play. Call me biased 'cause he's voting me but it's more the fact that he keeps doing it and hasn't updated his reasoning in some time, even now that he doesn't think eb (with whom he previously paired me) is suspicious.

That said, you wanna explain yourself donut before I return the favor?

FREAKING OUT

I trust Mirdini. They're known town at this point and I guess have a rep for being good at mafia? He was right about Slorange and I'm fairly sure he's right about seedy being town. I also think he's right about donut being scum, as recently stated. Donut pushing a Nova vote while not having too much suspicion on him makes me think Nova's clean, which lines up with Mirdini's thinking.

Truegreen is a conundrum to me. Really wanna know what the pie did. Mirdini had them as probably town but that before Slorange died. Slorange wasn't really a threat to Truegreen, in fact Truegreen probably could have taken the heat off of themselves by just backing off on Slorange. Killing Slo seems more like a frame-job on TG than anything.

Garuru seems like good people in general.

Everyone else is question marks.

My favorite thing is when people play along

but yeah I just noticed what time it is and I've got a schedule to keep so I'll be back with Krispy Kreme tomorrow mornin'