Murder By The Book - Ender's Game

"Oh gosh, um, er" Rory delays answering as he flips through the fourth wall's notepad. "I'm still in the middle of the first act...but this script doesn't seem like it's going to follow your typical three-act story arc? That uh, that seems like a bold choice to me. I mean, two or three act structure, it's um, traditional, right? Gives you time for an intermission too... uh, but I guess whoever's writing this is a bit more experienced than me so um...or maybe it's a first draft..."
Rory mutters to himself, pondering the "Brothers not brothers" plot twist that he's just now seeing unfold. What strange pacing...

I've already answered all those questions explicitly today. It's not my fault you haven't read them. I appreciate your honest cowardice though. So you said you're okay being lynched tomorrow+, what do you feel you can contribute to tomorrow's discussion? (besides lurker prodding and no lynching which naturally only the most cunning are capable of). Assume for this argument that truegreen's vigged and oh seedy's been maffed and both flipped town.

Currently on tablet only til later tonight so no fancy debate walls.

Votals VIII

Nova - 1 (Dalmationer)
eberron - 1 (Granolaman)
Akumu - 1 (Seedy)
Slorange - 1 (Truegreen, Granolaman)
Granolaman - 10 (Schazer, Slorange, Solaris, Nova, Garuru, eberron, icanhasdonut, Palamedes, Akumu, Chwoka)
Mirdini - 1 (AgentBlue)

With 20 players alive and present, it takes 11 to lynch and six to soft lynch.
Deadline has been extended to Wednesday, April 1 at 11:59 PM - about 23 hours from now.

well we got 10 on the vote and it needs 11, so i the vote sways to Granolaman.
Hmm, i should write something about this biz...

vote granolaman

(that was hammer btw. for future reference, when the last vote is placed on a lynch, the day immediately ends. so no talking anymore.)

Bringing Down The Hamlet: Final Votals

Akumu - 1 (Seedy)
Slorange - 1 (Truegreen, Granolaman)
Granolaman - 11 (Schazer, Slorange, Solaris, Nova, Garuru, eberron, icanhasdonut, Palamedes, Akumu, Chwoka, Dalmationer)
Mirdini - 1 (AgentBlue)

After much discussion, a clear majority has spoken. A rope is hung from the library's high rafters - surprisingly convenient for such a purpose, really - and Granolaman is lead to it, to speak her final words.

"This is precisely the sort of barbaric solution children are learning from modern literature," she says. "Honestly, leading a proper lady like myself to her death? Shameful, shameful. I hope you all get what you deserve."

And with that, she very properly ties the noose around her neck, then very properly pulls the other end of it.

Granolaman was Dakota Weber, author of Manners For The Well-Adjusted. She was a very proper lady, thank you very much.

The direction of today's society was all wrong, in her view, and the problem started with the sorts of stories children were exposed to. As far as Ms. Weber was concerned, Iconoclast's authors were no better than the murderous members of Undercover in this respect. As such, she wanted to see all of them pay, or at least the great majority of them.

Granolaman was third-party, and would win if at most three players were alive at the end of the game.

After roles were randomized, but before sending out role information, Granolaman was able to select a partner out of the other players, who would be able to communicate with them and share their win condition. This was not technically an alignment change because it only happened before roles were actually assigned.

For balance purposes, the setup was adjusted slightly based on the recruited role. No matter what happened with the recruitment, scum would have the same number of members, Granolaman's partner would have an ability of some kind, and there would be the same number of town power roles.

The room is silent in contemplation. It seems Ms. Weber considered nearly everyone at Iconoclast her enemy; but she was not a member of Undercover. No one is entirely sure what to make of this revelation.

But night is drawing near, and so everyone heads to their rooms. Tomorrow, the process will continue.

It's night, please get your actions in promptly.

Show Content

SpoilerCan't decide if my bleh post should be "give em hell" or "suck it nerds"

Bee Tee Dubs header's too long for replies.

Show Content

SpoilerCan't decide if my bleh post should be "give em hell" or "suck it nerds"

Bee Tee Dubs header's too long for replies.

Show Content

SpoilerCompromise: "Suck 'em hellnerds"

Bee Tee Dubs header's too long for replies.

Yes, but we're not exactly getting a lot of posts in before it changes. Assuming people don't make a habit of nightposting. (don't make a habit of nightposting, people)

So Day 3 will be starting in about 12 hours or so.

If you're having a last-minute change of thoughts about what you're doing tonight, now's the time to let me know.

Dawn arrives, and everyone gathers once more.

But this time, there is a body in the library - and much to everyone's surprise, it's the missing cyber95, laid down next to Granolaman's.

cyber95 was Dr. Donald Sullivan Lester, a proper gentleman. He wrote about proper gentlemen as well, though for reasons he never understood, his books were somehow classified as humor.

Dr. Lester was recruited to aid in an effort to dispose of the authors who were such a corrupt influence on today's youth. This would require seeing most of Iconoclast's writers dead, of course - an unpleasant task, but to Dr. Lester's eyes, a necessary one. And he had a variety of skills he could bring to it.

Indeed, he was talented enough that he could learn someone's alignment, or see who they visited, or see who visited them. But he felt very uncomfortable with how intrusive all of these tasks were, and that they were unbecoming of a proper gentleman. Out of necessity, he was willing to do them regardless, of course; but he simply could not bear to do any one of those tasks more than twice.

In addition, he realized that he might need to take matters into his own hands and make the occasional kill. However, as this was extremely ungentlemanly, he did not feel as though he could conduct all his investigations if he resorted to such a task. For each kill he performed, he would lose two total uses of his investigative abilities.

He would win if the population was reduced to three at the end of the game, and would earn a bonus half-win if he or someone aligned with him was among the living at that time. Of course, that latter condition will not be coming into play now.

The sudden reappearance of cyber95's body is baffling, even more the fact that nobody else seems injured. Everyone begins the day's discussion in earnest.

Livelist:
-Mirdini
-Crowstone - Whimbrel
-SleepingOrange
-Garuru
-Schazer
-Sotek
-icanhasdonut
-Akumu
-seedy
-Palamedes
-Nova
-eberron
-AgentBlue
-amosmyn - Truegreen
-Dalm
-bigro
-Chwoka
-Gnauga
-Solaris

Deadline is Saturday, April 12 at 11:59 PM Mountain time.

A note: I have given the newer players a chance to ask me for advice once, which has been indicated in their Quicktopics. If you feel you're inexperienced enough to need the help and I didn't give you any such notification, post in your QT and I'll extend the offer to you, too.

imo today we should probably deal with truegreen or, if we are going to hit a lurker/low content type, bigro

right now im pretty comfortable with voting for bigro over his continuous uncontributions

also, gj doc/bp/roleblocker/whichever

Can I get help /brick'd

Arright so sleeping on it has not changed my opinion. REMEMBER ME BUDDY!?



First off, I already went through both of the D1 wagons and noted that SlOrange was the scummiest on NL. Why? Because he knows better. NL is a good idea approximately 1% of the time. Town needs info, and the only way to verify info is to get a flip. If he really wanted the newbies to enjoy themselves, he could've gone for a veteran or a lurker.

I've also been over his claim before: He could be just about anything at this point, especially with the confusion and deliberation the claim has caused. But the fact is that it took up a solid chunk of the day and drew attention, which is pointless for town and risky but potentially excellent for scum. It's a better play for the enemy team, regardless of how true or false it is; again, if he's town, he should've known better.

And now some quotes...

You're adorable, Nova.

This is the absolute worst response to "You're defending yourself with your meta" and I regret that I let up so easily back then.

Mmm, I don't know about all that. If I am Undercover, it'd be an easy fakeclaim to make on a night where there was only one kill. Doubly so if I knew that kill would be janitored because I'm on a team with the janitor, and triply so if I'm the godfather and know I'm safe from any investigators who are suspicious of my claim.

I mean, it seems like a prrretty pointless gambit given that if I weren't me it wouldn't change my opinion about my alignment, but I suppose anything that takes some suspicion off them early game can be helpful for scum, especially if it's not something that will bite them at endgame (as something unprovable any which way like this would be). I don't think this really proves anything, I just wanted to make sure people didn't start assuming that cyber was town and framing their beliefs based on that.

He should not be the one to decide how pointless the gambit is. The fact that he's trying to dictate people's impression of him is bad enough on its own, but the subject matter just makes it worse. "C'mon guys, everybody knows that thing I did would be pointless if I were lying. It just makes no sense. Don't be silly."

And yeah past this point he spends so much friggin' time talking about his own claim and the mechanics thereof and everybody gets in on it

It's pretty ridic

you pushed crazy hard for a no lynch yesterday

Haha, okay.

I love how he oscillates between snidely dismissing suspicions of him and devoting paragraph after paragraph to them. Not only is he defensive but he's inconsistent. That's like a 4x STAB attack to my scumdar. Like he just Flamethrower'd my Scizor is what went down.

I just

I genuinely don't even see how I have votes on me

To the extent that if I'm lynched in the next day or two I will laugh and laugh

But! The best thing to do in this situation (since I know a Slorange lynch is a mislynch) is to counter it with a lynch I think is better. Rather than continuing to prod lurkers, I guess I'll put my money where my mouth is and vote: granolaman. Easily the wonkiest play and the most doublespeak so far.

I picked this out because it's just. Such a perfect picture of everything I find fishy about this guy. He has such confidence in the fact he's a bad lynch target, yet he spends so much time shooting people down, and comparatively devotes little to no time to scumhunting. I think the first thing of substance he said about a non-lurker was saying I'm always cagey and he didn't have a read on me yet.

I will point out for posterity and anyone who pays more attention to what's being said that to what's already been said that I am in no way defending myself based on my claimed role. From post one, I said there were reasonable(ish) reasons I could have claimed it as scum, although I have more to gain from it as town; I don't think my claim gives anyone any information about my alignment either way. That's why I'm surprised at votes on me based solely on that claim. It doesn't prove anything any which way. My role might not even be what I say it is, and there are plenty of reasons both town and scum for me to lie about it. You don't have anything but my word on anything, which really shouldn't tip the scale in either direction at this point in the game. Votes on me at this stage are anti-scumhunt, and I'm almost as leery of the Schazers and Gnaugas that are taking me so readily at my word because I haven't done anything worth believing me that much yet. This whole conversation is a distraction from any actual attempt to parse out who's who, which is why I feel it's reasonable to vote for the person most interested in keeping it going: any attempt to distract the town from substantive, provable matters is anti-town play.

Highlighted the contradiction. So town and scum would have a reason to lie; then is it a decent play, or is it pointless? And maybe he never explicitly said "Don't lynch me because I'm this," but his role has defended him several times, if for no other reason than people have gotten caught up debating the validity of the claim.

And only now does he mention the conversation is a distraction from... "any actual attempt to parse out who's who?" Well whose fault is that? He could've just not had the conversation in the first place. He could've ignored it entirely and done some of that parsing for himself. Or he could've... y'know... not claimed.

BLERGABLERGABLERG

MARRARGH RARF BUFF ROORURUGH

Yeah this entire exchange with Truegreen is just... wat. Why are you trying this hard. If you need to try this hard to defend yourself, you'd do better for less effort by just scumhunting. Add some positive to the negative, balance them out. But nope, he just keeps reacting to people. Rather than propose something new or risky, he continues to defend himself and wear out existing topics of conversation.

People I am moderately suspicious of without strong backing or reasoning:
Schazer (Too ready to side with me but otherwise contributing)

If I'm not mistaken, he tries to sneak in remarks like this more than once. Could be scum distancing, as I mentioned before. If he takes offense to that then maybe he should find another, more concrete reason to suspect her.

I feel like I shouldn't have to point this out, but... Nobody should really listen to the advice of a dude whose faction's goals are either "Cause as much confusion and thus death as possible" if he's telling the truth or "Kill all the town players" if he's lying and mafia. Not really a great position from which to be telling the town what do do? Remember, if the town plays well, he loses! The sooner scum die off, the less likely his three-man-endgame wincon is to come about, so he has no incentive to get mafia players killed.

And again, his response to Granola's claim. Naturally, he points out the notion that would benefit him the most, rather than taking any of Granola's words to the cutting board or proposing his own suspects.

There's so much other stuff I could've pointed out, but I tried to limit myself to things that stuck out independently and to not twist facts to suit theories. Regardless, this has been SlOrange's play since Day One: self-concerned, dismissive, unhelpful.

Statement: You are a risk, SlOrange. You are impulsive... crude... and soon, deceased.

Vote SleepingOrange

NOW, as for what to do after he flips:

If town, I want to hear more from Truegreen; they took Slorange to the hoop over his claim and displayed many of the same behaviors as him in the process, which would make them look pretty bad on flip.

If scum, I am absolutely willing to revisit my evaluation of Schazer; the criticisms brought against her previously were valid, I just didn't see them as outweighing the work she'd done for the town. Then again, she's sharp as nails and not scared to put herself out there, so it's not impossible for her to be scum, and some of the info that's come forth since my last assessment casts her in a less immaculate light.

I'm gomen for the immediate page-stretcher orz

basically the way I see this is either watts/eberron or slorange/schazer scumteam sets and in all honesty I do like slorange better than you/eberron
vote nova

Yeeeeeeah no

I'm on my phone, and I hate composing long trains of thoughts on my phone, so it'll have to wait a bit but

Mechanically/practical claimwise speaking I think slorange is clear? I reserve the right to retract that once I'm at a real keyboard and have thought it through.

In the other mitt, I think nova is misguided town based on the way that wall just fell down, buuuut you're all gonna have to gimme a bit! Because phones suck dicks to type paragraphs on

I'm not sure what you'd have me do here, Nova, I'm really not. If I defend myself it's because I'm scum and worried about being lynched; if I don't address points against me, it's because I'm glossing over legitimate arguments because I'm scum and want people to forget them. Yr tunnlin dude

I'm mostly just going to let people decide for themselves whether the points you brought against me have merit (since I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't), but I am cocking a quizzical eyebrow at the suggestion that I should simply not have claimed at all. Should I have been able to predict how people would react? Regardless of how conniving scum-me is in this hypothetical, you can't seriously believe I could have singlehandedly orchestrated the conversation in a way that focused on my claim and the consequences thereof to the exclusion of everything else. That could have been my intention, I suppose, but the reason that the conversation dominated everything was because that's really all we had to look at given a janitored (or tempjanitored) kill and no day one lynch. Had I decided to sit on the information I had, what would we have discussed instead? What does your fantasy day two look like in which I didn't claim? Who would you have wanted to see lynched without my actions and posts that stemmed from the claim to consider?

I really feel like this whole thing is played out and you're beating a drum obody's going to march to, but... Hey, even if you're 100% wrong, you're wrong with conviction, and that's gotta count for something.

(Also continuing to intimate I'm scum because I started a no-lynch wagon continues to be adorable.)

To move on, I'll vote: Truegreen for all the reasons I laid out earlier. I'm not married to this lynch, but he's still my top suspect.

Actually, before Truegreen, d'you know who really needs to get to existing (or get to posting some valid reasons why they haven't been existing)?

Vote: Mirdini.

I mean I am like 70% ok with a Truegreen lynch at some point today maybe? But really irrespective of who eats lynch today I want Mirdini to drag himself out of the woodwork. I know he's been online so I'm curious as to why we've seen no trace of him.

Actually, before Truegreen, d'you know who really needs to get to existing (or get to posting some valid reasons why they haven't been existing)?

Vote: Mirdini.

Heyo! I've been online ever since this past night 2 (and just in time, woo), most of the past two weeks I've been ridiculously busy. Finally got around to reading up on the thread and I've got a few hunches to run with

a. Slorange is telling the truth and is either town or a third party, please stop trying to lynch him
b. Watts and Truegreen are probably also both town
c. Vote: Solaris (could get behind a donut, palamedes or garuru lynch as well)
d. Bonus fun information I'll get to in a bit

p.s. those are less hunches and more facts unless I qualified it with a probably

also because I am awful at keeping things on the down-low and hey scum know about it anyway



I'm a dead maaaaaan

*lady, actually

sounded more dramatic the first way but Renowned Historian Shelley Winters isn't going to go down without a fight

even if Undercover tried to crush me with a bookcase last night

re: voting Solaris to start with (before I even bother getting into yesterday/d1)

imo today we should probably deal with truegreen or, if we are going to hit a lurker/low content type, bigro

right now im pretty comfortable with voting for bigro over his continuous uncontributions

also, gj doc/bp/roleblocker/whichever

Points people in the direction of Truegreen and then they just hop off onto the lurker who won't fight back, leaving it for someone else to vote true and distract everyone with a wonderful town on town fight Sol's not at all involved in

sounds legit.
Vote: Solaris.

In The Beginning, There Were Votals

bigro - 1 (Solaris)
Slorange - 1 (Nova)
Nova - 1 (icanhasdonuts)
Truegreen - 1 (Slorange)
Mirdini - 1 (Schazer)
Solaris - 2 (Mirdini, Sotek)

With 19 players alive, it takes 10 to lynch and five to soft-lynch. Deadline is Saturday, April 12 at 11:59 PM Mountain Time.

im honored that you would think people would listen to me

thats fair, my basis for voting bigro is that he makes this game less fun just by (semi-)existing before, bigro came in and flipped out on slorange for basically no reason? i want to see if he does anything instead of nothing?

truegreen 'pinion is buried in the fact that i cant actually read his longer posts comprehensively but i think that amos poofed out suspiciously and that truegreens whole deal with slorange /could/ be "i dont understand what you are doing" but i also feel like it could def be ~something scummy~

nova i really dont think that scum would lie about this whole deal, it is a bit of an absurd situation

Late night post = short for me but my gut still says green is scum but I'm willing to wait for his reaction to N2 before I jump to any votes.