+iny ©at people

with wax there can't be a 1-person team.

'THERE WILL BE, IF THERE ARE more THAN TWO TEAMS. I suppose THE MATHS BECOMES 1v1v1v3. ASSUMING they CAN EVEN JOIN IN SUCH A SCENARIO. JOINING ONE OF THE TWO CREATES unavoidable IMBALANCE. IT IS THE safest OPTION FOR US AND FELLOW NEW FOLK TO KEEP THE VETERANS DEPOWERED. ESPECIALLY TO AVOID him.'

So long as we avoid sounding this demented suggesting it to M&M, turning the game into 1v1v1v3 with the two other newbies might actually work. Let Grind and Rein have their dispute. Wax will likely attack the largest alliance for 'balance', making it 3v1 and 1v1, with the winners of each either fighting it out or allying depending.

'I DON'T NEED TO DO THE talking WE HAVE OTHER VOICES FOR THAT. NAME dumpling. KEEP HER HOME AS A surprise AND TRAIN HER WHILE THE OTHERS VISIT MARZU, THEN MACARON. AND FOR GODS' SAKES, fortify IMMEDIATELY.'

nobody can teach or create when even one cat is off on an adventure

nobody can teach or create when even one cat is off on an adventure

WE HAVE books FOR TEACHING. WE simply LEAVE DUMPLING WHAT THEY NEED. SHE CAN fill IN THE BLANKS.

The idea of M&M&Frog Crimes battling Wax while Grind and Rein have a one-on-one is pretty entertaining. It'd even make for a decent way to take this adventure, if we're talking in meta terms.

But I think there's a lot of problems. Convincing M&M might be possible with some pragmatism, but we don't even have a clue how Wax will be in a fight against us, let alone if Grind and Rein would actually ignore the triple alliance.

I mean, sure, they're not warped out of existence (are we????) if they lose, but they're not in here to lose, either. According to Wax, them working out their problems is part of the intent of this game. In that case, Wax might actually like quarantining them to their own devices, but... that'd require dropping at least part of this hypothetical plan to him, likely infuriating him further.

We have so many ideas. We have basically no metric as to which of them will work, except our own judgement. This plan doesn't sound terrible-- it might even work positively. But it seems like equal chance it's actually on par with making The Bad Knife due to our own misunderstandings about the game.

(Plus won't Wax just ally with Grind or Rein automatically and end up making it a 1v2v3? With Wax as authority, Grind and Rein might even just ignore each other for long enough to wipe us out in a 3v3, newbies against experienced players.)

((Also Jacquerel's peaceful plan is more appealing to me from a story and morals perspective. It's just a Frog Crimes-esque thing.))

(Plus won't Wax just ally with Grind or Rein automatically and end up making it a 1v2v3? With Wax as authority, Grind and Rein might even just ignore each other for long enough to wipe us out in a 3v3, newbies against experienced players.)

Wax allies with the smallest team. If there are two teams with 1 person, he could ally with one, but that would make the other the smallest team - and then he'd ally with them. So if we understand this properly he'd either be in no alliance or stuck perpetually switching between them.

I find it highly unlikely Grind will ally with Rein. If we do this, it may also force both of them to try to ally with our triple entente and make it a 4v2, rather than trying to convince one of their teams to take us and make it a 3v3. I feel like this plan would give us the most options, and allow us to deal with the people who will be most understanding of our inexperience (the other noobs) rather than try to sway the stubborn old-hands.

'THERE ARE risks BUT WE CANNOT BE OUTNUMBERED. LOGIC guarantees THAT FAVOURABLE OUTCOMES ARE MOST PROBABLE. AFTER ALL, WOULDN'T GRIND AND REIN SOONER ally WITH US PEACEFULLY THAN FIGHT TOGETHER AGAINST ALL OF US? IT IS EASIER TO force PEACE IF THIS ALLIANCE IS ESTABLISHED FIRST.

BUT THIS IS ALL speculation. WE NEED TO court THE NECESSARY ALLIES FIRST. AND PREPARE FOR ALL scenarios.'

Wax allies with the smallest team. If there are two teams with 1 person, he could ally with one, but that would make the other the smallest team - and then he'd ally with them. So if we understand this properly he'd either be in no alliance or stuck perpetually switching between them.

OK, but we don't actually know how autobalance works. We think we know how it works. But we also thought that having a magic knife in our game-zone would be harmless fun.

We've made a lot of assumptions and 'figured the optimal solution out' many times. It's just as easy to assume that Wax doesn't count for his own autobalance function, or any other manner of problem that would throw a big ol' cat-shaped wrench in the plan.

I find it highly unlikely Grind will ally with Rein. If we do this, it may also force both of them to try to ally with our triple entente and make it a 4v2, rather than trying to convince one of their teams to take us and make it a 3v3.

While sensible numbers-wise, I can't imagine Wax or Grind/Rein will be happy with that solution for their own assorted reasons. Who says that that aligns with their actual goals? Their first response to this idea will probably just be 'No, that's not how the game works'. This has happened in response to basically all of our choices in this adventure, and whether it's just blind intuition or pattern recognition, that's what I see coming if we ally with M&M and try to win the numbers game.

Also, Grind and Rein don't have to ally for them to want to fight us before they fight each other.

Side question:

What might occur if we tell Wax that we're communicating inside a forum adventure on eagle-time.org?

Is that how the other gods exist, in their own planes of reality, interacting through various screens? Are other collective gods also collections of people on alien forums?

'IT IS NOT flawless, IT IS LOGICAL AND MOSTLY SAFE. SAFER THAN love AND RAINBOWS. WE blew OUR CHANCES FOR THAT, BUT IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THAT PLAN A, BY ALL MEANS. AS LONG AS WE HAVE A decent PLAN B.'

> x-teenth second for 'dumpling'
>> TEACH speech, Hippocrates, psychology, first aid, empathy, judo

teach all: love, diplomacy, rhetoric, peace, freedom, rainbows

teach all: love, diplomacy, rhetoric, peace, freedom, rainbows

absolutely, asap

teach Windy: manipulation, subversion.
Not happy about this, but I have my doubts aboveboard tactics will be enough.

teach all: love, diplomacy, rhetoric, peace, freedom, rainbows

wait no don't teach so many things at once D:
we don't wanna overload them

we taught prophet like 40 things, you might be a little gun-shy. i think we can get away with teaching the new cat like 5 related things (including communication, i'll second that from CSJ on the last page.)

also, gonna link the poll again for this page

OK, but we don't actually know how autobalance works. We think we know how it works. But we also thought that having a magic knife in our game-zone would be harmless fun.

Who is we

We've made a lot of assumptions and 'figured the optimal solution out' many times. It's just as easy to assume that Wax doesn't count for his own autobalance function, or any other manner of problem that would throw a big ol' cat-shaped wrench in the plan.

If Wax winds up joining one team or the other, it forces the remaining player to either join their rival and Wax for a 3v3 or join our 3 person team for a 4v2.

To me it seems like the most likely course of action to result in a 4v2 game.

While sensible numbers-wise, I can't imagine Wax or Grind/Rein will be happy with that solution for their own assorted reasons. Who says that that aligns with their actual goals? Their first response to this idea will probably just be 'No, that's not how the game works'. This has happened in response to basically all of our choices in this adventure, and whether it's just blind intuition or pattern recognition, that's what I see coming if we ally with M&M and try to win the numbers game.

The 'worst' case scenario is a 3v2v1, if we misunderstood autobalance and Wax joins one of the two teams (this has the side benefit of revealing who Wax agrees with out of Grind and Rein, as he would have the active choice of who to side with). Whoever is the '1' leftover would probably be open to a 4v2 alliance, since their rival would be with Wax.

One of the 'better' scenarios is 3v1v1v1, in which all of our opponents are scattered and divided, but we are a team of noobs. There is potential to ally with either Rein or Grind to make it 4v2.

SpoilerShow

OOC: From experience playing Starcraft in the school computer lab back in high school, a really good player can beat three noobs ganging up on them about 70% of the time. If there are three good players all fighting each other as well... I dunno. I have no experience in that particular matchup.

Another good scenario is straight up 4v2, convince either Macaron or Marzu to flip and then join that alliance. Solid teams, but a more tangible number advantage and we have at least one veteran on our team. The problem with going straight here is that Marzu doesn't like Rein, and Grind doesn't like us.

Going up against Wax would be dangerous, but we would be stuck in 2v2v2 if we want to stay on Wax's team alone.

To both be on Wax's team and be in an even 3v3 game at the same time, the best solution would be to convince Macaron to join Grind, then essentially stab Macaron in the back to ally with Rein and Wax. This would place us with two veterans against a veteran and two noobs.
(This seems like a really villainous thing to do, and I don't want to manipulate Macaron. So I am against this particular course of action.)

That's a lot of TEACH commands, that could overwhelm the cats. Perhaps we could simply have the cats look up those things in the encyclopedias we made them?

That way we aren't shoving knowledge into their heads like a child tries to fit a square peg in a round hole.

> Null all teaching commands (for reason cited)
> Give: list of aforementioned topics, who is to research what being noted, and instructions to read up on these topics to prepare for the adventure

Who is we

The collective 'we' of Frog-Crimes. Just trying to point out how as a group, we've made or allowed bad decisions out of lack of knowledge for the consequences in the past, too. It's not like I've actually put forth 'make the knife' commands myself but we're all the same collective working with the same body.

The number of ways that this plan can end up with us on a team against Wax and a veteran player is worrying. Like you said, a good player in any game can usually hold their own against multiple newbies-- and Wax is as good as can be.

Going up against Wax would be dangerous, but we would be stuck in 2v2v2 if we want to stay on Wax's team alone.

That's not bad. Wax is Wax, and we would be fighting smaller, disconnected alliances who could just as easily focus on each other.

Regardless, the truth is that we don't have to go with a plan that involves sending cats for the express purpose of warring, and I really don't think we should in any form. It's one way to end out this game and not my preferred one.

We've done no wars. We have no clue what they look like or what good plans of actions are beyond having TCPs and allies. That's the collective Frog-Crimes 'we', by the way... it could be possible that in this game, the 4v2 plan is really really viable because player skill isn't as important! It's just hard to know.

teach all: love, diplomacy, rhetoric, peace, freedom, rainbows

I'm in favour of this.

Also do you think we could just create a book / gamefaq's webpage telling us how exactly how joining/breaking alliances and autobalancing works, in our personal area?
We managed to make books for the tcps which essentially contain the sum total of all human knowledge so that sounds like it wouldn't be like, a huge ask. It'd be nice to intentionally make like, one informed decision in our collective life.

I have thoughts about alliances but I think I'm just going to put them in the chat thread because they're rambling and don't end in a particular action and it's probably hard enough for Kitet to parse this thread for actual commands as it is.

Also do you think we could just create a book / gamefaq's webpage telling us how exactly how joining/breaking alliances and autobalancing works, in our personal area?
We managed to make books for the tcps which essentially contain the sum total of all human knowledge so that sounds like it wouldn't be like, a huge ask. It'd be nice to intentionally make like, one informed decision in our collective life.

I agree and support this idea.

If it autobalances and everybody else gets one, well, it's a lot less off-putting to have a rulebook appear than a knife.

Also do you think we could just create a book / gamefaq's webpage telling us how exactly how joining/breaking alliances and autobalancing works, in our personal area?
We managed to make books for the tcps which essentially contain the sum total of all human knowledge so that sounds like it wouldn't be like, a huge ask. It'd be nice to intentionally make like, one informed decision in our collective life.

I agree and support this idea.

If it autobalances and everybody else gets one, well, it's a lot less off-putting to have a rulebook appear than a knife.

I am in with this idea.

> Give: list of aforementioned topics, who is to research what being noted, and instructions to read up on these topics to prepare for the adventure

Do you think it would be better to give pamphlets or booklets regarding to the topics?

Also, has the new chicken-soup-type TCP been named yet? I'm proposing Polo, Pollo, and Apollo as a name for them.

TCPs like two-syllable names the most. Or so we've been told.

Dumpling is two syllables, right? I'm happy with Dumpling.

create road to wax's base
create tiny wax wearing clown wig that has two purpose- to drive, and to beep
create an even tinier car for tiny wax
duplicate 5,000 times
send in the direction of wax's base

teach all: love, diplomacy, rhetoric, peace, freedom, rainbows

nonjoke suggestion, we should divide these up between the cats and have them teach each other. this way they can learn all of these things without being overwhelmed