Some Real-Talk: Hawkspace After Dark Problems

EDIT:

So the discussion below pretty much goes as follows:

"I don't understand what is happening and I see problems with it."

"This is what this is about and let's work to answer those problems."

"Oh okay I get it now."

Feel free to review this at your convenience and follow up with your own versions of the above.

Real Talk: This entire sub forum seems like an actual bad idea.

Is there any reason this space exists here other than some convoluted byproduct of IRC in jokes?

Hawkspace, as I understood it, served a purpose. This "after dark" business just seems to be ignorable clutter at best.

I mean, I can get the "Ha Ha. Let's post even more nonsensical stuff" here - but isn't that literally what we already have with Hawkspace?

I'm going to sleep on it, but I am curious what the consensus behind the purpose for this space is.

i have no idea. i suspect it's all going to be locked in a few hours, but im enjoying the ride while it lasts.

i am going to ban you i swear

pretty much nomic subforum, btp

so, like, ignore it if it's ignorable

i suspect im not going to care much for it myself after the novelty wears off, but if someone is having fun i don't see where it's a problem for anyone else. just mark it read after you check the actual hawkspace threads you care about

what are the consequences basically?

Hawkspace doesn't actually serve a purpose either, there's no rules against shitposting in the other general purpose subforum

what are the consequences basically?

hawkspace takes a monkey wrench to a fire hydrant and raw sewage rockets out

i am going to ban you i swear

See this doesn't really have the whole "Friendship is Paramount" vibe that makes this forum a safe-place.

I don't mean your post specifically, I just mean the frantic "No Rules No Consequences." motif that encourages posting without thinking about others?

I mean, even I'll go through and auto-yes vote on every proposition that comes up just to test the system. If a system can be influenced by that then it's a bad system.

And the rule that only 3 people can move a thread into this space without original poster's consent? That's not an ignorable effect. People can have fun at the expense of others and if a place like this encourages that then it probably shouldn't be here.

Now, that might not be what this becomes. We have good-folks here and in all likelihood this is just harmless fun, but I think the possibility that it is not is worth voicing concerns over.

i am going to stain all of your clothes with cheap energy drinks

This subforum actually has all the same rules as Hawkspace, just with more on top. It's not any more of a lawless zone than anywhere else.

The more I think about it, the more this seems like a bad idea. Unlike Hawkspace, which seems like a good-natured place to hang out and relax, and somehow manages to get people to work hard on their shitposts, this place seems uncontrolled and wild. Furthermore, it's just redundant. There's really no reason for it to exist, and it's just confusing.

It almost reminds me of the difference between a Garry's Mod sandbox server and GTA V online.

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yeah this is how i actually feel on this

These are fair calls and feel quite similar to the complaints/issues raised when we first made Hawkspace. I definitely agree that some of the earlier propositions that were quite sensible (e.g. Slorange's one to make it harder to single out people) should not have been shot down. Making a counter-proposal that does the opposite is the logical follow-through on that for "jokes" but when you think about it it's actually kinda shitty.

After the thrill wears off we can go about proposing rules that are goofy but still have a modicum of filtration so we can still make something entertainingly rubbish while still subconsciously-consciously trying to be decent to each other.

I want y'all to give this place a chance - I'm putting up propositions for methods to give rulemaking/breaking a little more structure, and encourage folks to do the same. Obviously we'll have legacy rules from the initial flurry that will make us wonder "why is this still a thing", but becoming progressively better people from cruder beginnings is basically the story of this goddamn forum.

my threats are all just pure bullshitting but im legitimately kind of irritated

What was the rationale behind this subforum?
(Not angry/passive-aggressive, actually curious)

I mean to get anything done on hawkspace re: pharmdrugs you need some absurd amount of votes and no dissent and it's just a ripe pain in the jollies to get anything done thus nothing does.

This is the opposite.

I'm not sure this is really the case with the quorum on Hawkspace.

You basically only need 8 people in support of something for it to happen, and that rule is open for adjustment.

8 isn't a whole lot of people. How many people got together to make this subforum? If there were enough complaints to warrant a new space, then wouldn't there also be enough to change the existing system? It doesn't feel like a whole lot of thought went into this.

I could be wrong! And Chwoka seems to be doing a quick job of editing and fixing rules that seem to be broken. They're overriding the rules that could cause problems in favor of having a space that runs well, which I personally think is a good thing, but it says something for the quorum system at Hawkspace that pharmdrugs hasn't needed to do that.

The filter for bad ideas over there is time and thought, and the filter over here is Chwoka. (That's not a bad filter though! It's just that...isn't what the implication of having an "easy-access democracy" brings to mind)

If we do have this subforum, it could probably use a clear statement of purpose so that people, like myself, who haven't been privy to the IRC conversations understand what is going on, and have a better idea of what to expect.

Just to clear it up, this seems to have been an idea spawned independently by Chwoka and/or Schazer, if it was from an IRC conversation it certainly wasn't from one today.
Maybe it was from yesterday while I was asleep? I don't know.

it is very rare for things to pass through quorum in hawkspace

yeah nah, chwoka wanted to take a test drive of hawkspace with slightly lower thresholds for passing rules, so the "need" not being met was "hawkspace is too hard to make rules changes happen in". Which is honestly kind of ok? Like sure maybe we could've played a game of nomic but we're not exactly short of space in this digital landscape.

You weren't around for Hawkspace's inception but we definitely had teething problems that were never really officially "resolved". We just kind of settled in over time and found a rhythm, which I'm hoping is what happens here.

Yeah, Bigro makes a good point in that the initial flurry is going to be a lot different than the rest of the time.

I just wish more of us had known about it ahead of time, with some background and input.

I just wish more of us had known about it ahead of time, with some background and input.

it probably wouldnt have happened if that were the case

good point