Nostalgfia - GAME OVER SCUM WIN

unless nercania flips as some sort of incredibly helpful scum role (in which case fair enough, egg on my face) I kind of doubt people would 'invent defenses out of nothing' for them instead of just, bussing the lurker for Town Cred ™

and I just have to stress again, in my opinion nercania's 4-joke-vote-posts-and-nothing-else shenanigans is really not as much of an indication that they're scum as you seem to think it is, they may be town who are too busy to check the thread, or too distracted to check the thread, or too nervous to play the game, or a third party who doesn't care what people think really, or yeah scum who wants to lurk to escape notice (despite... that obviously not working because I'm spending half my posts talking about them). I just don't see the world in which mafia!nercania is such an obvious thing.

iirc RobustLaser has posted some and it's been alright, and has noted that they tend to overthink their posting and then not post anything. Which COULD be a scum excuse to avoid posting but when folks say that sort of thing I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt for a bit at least (on my head be it) :B

robottobt/pharms both strike me as folks who have not online mafia'd a lot and as such just aren't used to the argument-fight-format the rest of us are getting into, but that doesn't really swing me much in either direction on whether they're scum or not. They're certainly still candidates though.

Folks I feel town-ish on right now: Cat, Sunspider, wheat, a52
folks I feel maybe town-ish on: palamedes, seedy, solaris
folks I feel 3rd-party-ish on at this point I guess: Schazer?
folks I feel variably neutral on: Akumu, Laser, aC, robottobt, Coldblooded, Granola, Pharms
folks who are lurk and probably should leave the picture as things currently stand: agent, nercania
pal I wanna lynch at this point whether they're 3P or mafio: CSJ

if I had to pick CSJ Mafia Friends right now I would probably say 1 of the lurky pals, Laser, and then 2 out of pharms/akumu/granola/CB/robottobt

Wheat, I feel you on the weird fabricated lurker defense of N-O by Pharms as being possible scumminess. But I don't know why you see a lack of any info whatsoever from a CSJ lynch. We have people voting for 'em, people dismissing and excusing their behavior, people jumping on board with no reason... all very helpful stuff.

Also, I don't know where y'all see CSJ as definite 3rd party, rather than a Mafia player trying to preserve himself with shenanigans, without forcing his allies to implicate themselves by openly defending him. And I still see potential for CSJ to be a sacrifice, to let Mafia earn Town Cred, especially from the folks joining the vote late with no reason.

Yeah that's all also entirely possible Spoids, it might also be a ploy to get us to worry about WHAT IF THERE'S SOMETHING BAD THAT HAPPENS IF WE LYNCH HIM or w/e (thus seedy's wine image). Guess we'll find out in any case :v

iirc RobustLaser has posted some and it's been alright, and has noted that they tend to overthink their posting and then not post anything. Which COULD be a scum excuse to avoid posting but when folks say that sort of thing I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt for a bit at least (on my head be it) :B

Fair!

Also, I don't know where y'all see CSJ as definite 3rd party, rather than a Mafia player trying to preserve himself with shenanigans, without forcing his allies to implicate themselves by openly defending him. And I still see potential for CSJ to be a sacrifice, to let Mafia earn Town Cred, especially from the folks joining the vote late with no reason.

In any case we're still getting rid of a threat and I think we all have some pretty confident reads as to who's maf and who's not regardless of the Bait or PreserveSelfWithShenanigans scenarios.

Guess we'll find out in any case :v

yowo

Who's tunneling now Sunspider :P

Saying that I'm not sure how to read a very iffy exchange isn't suddenly me waffling on you for all time? You're acting like I've been going back and forth this whole time based off of that too which is Very Weird.

Also strange that you call me out for asking people to not needlessly pile votes onto Sunspider (past six is really unnecessary and could have invited an accidental townhammer which in turn almost always wastes a day or two on mislynches) and then just now criticizing late voters anyways?

I agree with Mirdini that n-o is any likelier scum than any of the other lurkers. If I was going to look at other less active players I'd aim for ones who have seemed to be trying more to make it seem like they're being more active than they are, if that makes any sense?

Moving on, Mirdini I'm going to apologize now for not really actually finishing off my 'more sure chance' list but I was waiting on something before I did that just didn't end up happen. Right now I'd like to go into it because I think it's more likely scum than the (probably 3rd party and only possibly scum) CSJ but that there's only like a day and a half left and I'm probably going to have a fairly busy day ahead of me. On one hand if I out it there's no risk of me getting shot in the night and it gives granola another target regardless of the lynch, but on the other if I hide it there's more opportunity the longer I wait and there's no risk of distracting a lynch on what is honestly a pretty good target. Thoughts? Others feel free to weigh in.

By distracting the lynch I meant leading to a no lynch or something by splitting votes was what I meant, just realized as I posted that the wording there was terrible.

I should sleep, but I gotta call some of that out too.

Who's tunneling now Sunspider :P

So, does me calling you out equate to tunneling now, or something? I'd love if you could explain that bit of sass.

Saying that I'm not sure how to read a very iffy exchange isn't suddenly me waffling on you for all time? You're acting like I've been going back and forth this whole time based off of that too which is Very Weird.

Where did I once say you were "waffling for all time"? You've been locked onto the idea of killing me from your very first post in this game! That was my whole point!

I notice how you didn't address that at all in this reply, either. Why is that?

To reply to this though, I was pointing out that you said you suddenly didn't feel confident about your read on me after that exchange, but stayed locked on to the idea of killing me for CSJ's suspicious behaviors anyway. IE. still dead set on killing me whatever your actual suspicions are. That was my point. At this point, are you trying to misrepresent or lie about the things I say, to manufacture a reason to make me worth killing? 'Cause it's starting to look that way.

Also strange that you call me out for asking people to not needlessly pile votes onto Sunspider (past six is really unnecessary and could have invited an accidental townhammer which in turn almost always wastes a day or two on mislynches) and then just now criticizing late voters anyways?

Lastly, you asking everyone to restrict the votecount to exactly the minimum we need to lynch, regardless of their suspicion, leaves us extremely vulnerable to a single player changing their vote at the last minute and cancelling the lynch. It dampens discussion and useful tells for Day 3 RE: who voted whom. We are also also not remotely close to at risk of ending the day early, nor are we remotely close to scum team hammering the lynch (which wouldn't make sense anyway since it's too early for them to risk outing themselves).

Oh, and lastly lastly, people joining the vote late with no stated reasons was my problem. You omitted that last part. Earlier, you complained about people joining votes without giving a reason for it. Why then do you suddenly think this is "strange" when it's me who has the same problem?

TL;DR - I'm saying I think it was a bad suggestion, and if you weren't wearing blinders and dead-set on seeing everything I do as scummy whatever it is, you ought have known better.

1) The first part was a joke because you called me out on tunneling in a long post dedicated almost entirely to you meticulously attacking every single thing I said about you no matter how small? It's the literal definition of tunneling so I thought I'd poke fun and didn't intend to antagonize you with it as much as it clearly did. Sorry.

2)

you're even doubting your own reads, and I want to ask you to check yourself.

Okay you didn't literally say 'always', but in this snippet you are literally calling me out on doubting my own reads, as in plural. I'm not sure how else I was supposed to take it other than that you were talking about way more things than a single 'I'm not sure what to make of this one specific thing' comment. As for that comment you seem to misunderstand it entirely - I didn't say I changed my read on you at all, just that I wasn't certain whether or not your conversation with CSJ said about the potential coalignment I was starting to feel like you might have had.

I also haven't been only pursuing you nonstop. In fact, earlier this game day I was actually voted today in part for looking like I was solely going after an entirely different player.

3) Isn't minimum like, four or five? I feel like cutting it off at six wasn't completely ridiculous considering that it was pretty likely that at least some people would ignore or miss my post and vote anyways.

Okay so, you've said I'm not answering you and putting words in your mouth but I'm honestly starting to feel the same way and I'm also not entirely certain what you're even asking me at this point. It feels like you've thought I've said something, either because you misinterpreted what I did say or I just straight up said something poorly (which is fairly likely, I've had a lot going on) and that causes me to not understand what you're saying, and now we've gotten stuck in some type of hyper aggressive self-perpetuating cycle.

To try and remedy that I guess what exactly are you asking me? Why I'm suspicious of you compared to other people, or something else entirely?

Oh right and I don't understand how me telling people to watch out for overvoting CSJ has really anything to do with you, if that's what your tl;dr was talking about.

Ugh. I'm getting confused. Are you lynching me, or pala? Reading into my death before it happens? That's awfully helpful of you, sunspider and I appreciate it.

Mirdini, you've classified votes for n-o as being votes for a joke-posting lurker. That's not at all why I voted for them. They put the third vote on Wheat on day one, and then re-upped that vote on day two. That's not jokes, that's trying to get someone lynched, and I thought the reasoning for it ("Wheat is a dog") was specious enough to be suspicious.

I did really hope that poking them would elicit some kind of substantive response, but even after specifically mentioning I didn't like what they were up to on day one, they didn't respond and just went ahead and re-voted on Wheat for the same bad reasons.

All that said, CSJ is busy melting down right now, keikaku or not, and I feel pretty safe in saying they're not town. Their vote for n-o is making me question the above. So for the time being,

Unvote

I'd vote CSJ but we're trying to stay between soft and hard lynch for time reasons, I guess?

Okay, now item shenanigans. I said before it seemed like a whole mess not worth trying to figure out, and I still largely feel that way. I got a head-ache trying to figure out what was going on and being claimed in the whole tangle around Wheat, and dog-talk frankly didn't help make things clearer. I tried to draw out a diagram of what was said:

Show Content

Spoilerhttps://i.imgur.com/kEKPPEN.jpg

I ask the dog if I have that right.

Actually, I also ask the dog, if the dog wanted Granolaman's gun, why did the dog additionally dig through n-o's trash? Wouldn't that reduce the dog's chances for its desired outcome?

Hey Akumu, did you start the game with a recipe book?

Nope, nor anything other than a Present (containing Spring). My Spring only sprung itself away.

If someone's "trying to get someone lynched" why would they just post twice near the start of each day with 0 reasoning, though?

That is not a very effective strategy for lynching someone, it looks more to me like 'oh I'm playing in this game I should probably do something ok I'll vote the dog cool that's my job here done'

which is something both scum and town (or like 3P survivor) could do

There's no evidence they ever even saw your post re: not liking their dog vote :P

Like, you may see their joke-posting lurking as more suspicious than I do, fair enough, but I'll still classify it under 'voting for the joke-posting lurker bc they're doing that thing and are evaluating it differently from how I do, I guess'.

If someone's "trying to get someone lynched" why would they just post twice near the start of each day with 0 reasoning, though?

I don't know, because they're bad at it and lazy? Let me ask you the opposite question: if they're not trying to get someone lynched, why would they vote for them when they already had multiple votes and were approaching the soft lynch amount?

I guess I just don't see any humor in the things you are calling joke posts. I would at most classify them as "low effort."

This is probably all moot anyway, given recent developments, I just wanted to make my earlier reasoning clear.

Yeah I don't mean that they're humorous, I guess what I actually meant was low-effort posts, so fair enough.

Even if they were responding to the votes on them, though, their posts then read more like 'oh I'm getting voted on, I should probably do something bc that's what you do in this game' than any sort of concerted effort to deflect onto wheat.

Unless you mean that there were already multiple votes on wheat, in which case hopping on a wagon is always easier than having to make some sort of case for a vote on a person who doesn't have any. Which is a sorta scummy move, yeah.

And fair enough, for the record I do also think nercania should be up for lynching tomorrow if they don't show up with something significant to say (and aren't eliminated in the night or something).

Unless you mean that there were already multiple votes on wheat, in which case hopping on a wagon is always easier than having to make some sort of case for a vote on a person who doesn't have any. Which is a sorta scummy move, yeah.

Yes, this is what I meant. Too many "they"s, sorry.

I don’t think CSJ’s actually 3p, honestly. we’ll see I guess
uncomfortable with how comfortable awkwardcarapace is with posting suddenly. has a “now that there’s a decided lynch target I’m safe” vibe

I’d be willing to lynch n-o in the future but I’d prefer there to be someone who actually posts in the spot when we do it. lynching a lurker is tiresome. especially if it’s “decided” at the start of the day so everyone else knows they’re in the clear for now

I’d be willing to lynch n-o in the future but I’d prefer there to be someone who actually posts in the spot when we do it. lynching a lurker is tiresome. especially if it’s “decided” at the start of the day so everyone else knows they’re in the clear for now

Totally agree, but with town just shooting them not really reliable (bc possible redirecting) gonna have to get to them at some point. Could always adjust tomorrow based on night info, but n-c probably needs to die at some point (can always be D4 or a town night-kill that's willing to risk the possible redirecting at some point).

All that said, CSJ is busy melting down right now

You could argue that, but when and why? How much of what I said today are actual leads and how much is intentional? Are there no leads? Are we in fact, all mafia? Are there third party in the game? (yes)

Have fun with that.

Robotnerd has not been online in like, two days now almost, kind of concerning?

I'm really sorry about not being around and also I'm assuming Mirdini's totals were correct.

CSJ (6) - Schazer, awkwardCarapace, seedy, Mirdini, Robust Laser, Solaris
nercania-orccelga (2) - wheat, Akumu
Pharmacy (3) - Coldblooded, a52, Sunspider
Wheat(1) - nercania-orccelga
Sunspider (1) - Palamedes

Abstaining (6): AgentBlue, Cat, Pharmacy, robottobt, Granolaman, CSJ

With 19 alive it takes 10 to hardlynch and 4 to softlynch.

Announcement

Acionyx will be joining as a fellow GM. I am eternally grateful and I'm sorry for my lack of activity. Night is likely to be longer than usual so that I can both get Acio up to speed and deal with RL things. I haven't yet dealt with things in quicktopics. I'm kind of far behind on that.

Countdown to Day End

Ngl but when I saw the first D2 bark I was about ready to vote you on principle too. As helpful as you've been today the quirk seems like the kinda thing you can point to as an excuse for any scummy behavior and claim we misinterpreted you.

Thanks for checking in with us mod, and big welcomes and thanks to Acio for stepping in!

I called it a "chivalrous nightkill" because it is contrary to primary mafia strategy. I (and presumably Seedy) read the kill as the mafia agreeing with my "we all haven't mafia'd in a while let's let everyone get some shenanigans in before murder" statement from D1. But who knows? Maybe they got redirected into SS and naturally didn't fess up about it. Or maybe a doc or blocker made a successful save and SS was killed by an anti-lurking vigilante. I don't actually know, but I decided to follow that first line of thought because it seemed like that was a common sentiment among D1 posters and more privy to analyzation than guessing at invisible night actions/forcing a doc to out themselves D2.

Thanks for checking in and finding a co-mod, RobotNerd! And thanks to Acionyx for stepping in too!

P.S. Just to make sure the current vote count is right:

Vote: CSJ

Maybe?

I know a lot of our records are lost to time, but the only times I've seen scum willingly target lurkers over town leadership/potential power roles is if they're worried about game health. Lurkers aren't known for their scumhunting or even their capacity to vote. It's a lot easier to avoid getting lynched if a quarter of the town is absent.