-=- Crooks Hollow III Mafia -=- Day Five? (3/21)

thing is about kane i dont think had all that much pressure on and he just threw his claim out there i dont really know what to think honestly. It just feels like apathy or something. Yea people were dirilling him but i dont think he had too many votes on him.

Apathy, and annoyance from somehow switching from fairly town in people's eyes (at least, that's what I thought end of D1) to some time-wasting attacks on me when I didn't even post much cause of issues; when I did, I stuck to what I thought before. I'm sure if I had voted someone else there would be a huge crowd of people going "oh herp derp why are you suddenly switching views?"

You seem to really care what alignment people think you are. Like "Ahhh what would people think if I said this ahhhh????"

Except your claim didn't seem that well-thought out? Like everything else, in light of that post, seems like you just care too much.

ebwop: not well thought out => he wasn't thinking about its implications ie he wasn't lying. Well, that's what it seemed like. It just felt like he was paraphrasing his role as he saw it.

Sorry I'm rushed and I need to study >.>

Anacreon's right though Kane, you blew your load before you were even in that deep. I had a null read on you earlier, but I'm getting kinda tired of people claiming and expecting us to think they're town for it. Plus, your role reminds me strongly of Mirdini's from the first game, which was scum aligned.

And, as I've mentioned, if you are town, you've nullified your usefulness with your claim.

No matter your side, it was an anti-town move.

That claim was actually really iffy and I don't believe it. Claiming pseudo-BP on being quicklynched seems like something scum would do. Keeping my vote where it is.

I don't understand why people are still voting Kane. The way I see it, Kane's town and he decides to shoot granola, in which case we'd get rid of the most likely 3rd party player and we could use the lynch on someone else. And if Kane's scum, it'd be same as if he were town except we'd have a dead scum as well. However, if Kane doesn't shoot by night, that would make him seem scummy and then I'd be up for lynching him.

I don't understand why people are still voting Kane. The way I see it, Kane's town and he decides to shoot granola, in which case we'd get rid of the most likely 3rd party player and we could use the lynch on someone else. And if Kane's scum, it'd be same as if he were town except we'd have a dead scum as well. However, if Kane doesn't shoot by night, that would make him seem scummy and then I'd be up for lynching him.

Your argument relies on me being anti-town. Your anti-town analysis of me relies the idea that urging someone to suivig is an anti-town act.

Yet here you are.

I don't understand why people are still voting Kane. The way I see it, Kane's town and he decides to shoot granola, in which case we'd get rid of the most likely 3rd party player and we could use the lynch on someone else. And if Kane's scum, it'd be same as if he were town except we'd have a dead scum as well. However, if Kane doesn't shoot by night, that would make him seem scummy and then I'd be up for lynching him.

Recommendation: Take a deep breath, step back, and think of all your reads and why specifically you think what you do. I feel like you're running into a bit of a confirmation bias here, coming up with beliefs and trying to justify why you think what you do. Try to be as impartial as you can until you have enough evidence to substantiate things to yourself.
I don't think it makes you look scummy, it's just a common thing that happens to human brains. Settling any sources of cognitive dissonance and all.
Also, Kane's claim is not that he would survive indefinitely upon a shooting, just that he would make it to the end of day... The last line of your statement doesn't really make sense under that light.

Calibornio, with all that in mind, care to rethink and restate your last post?

To clarify the last line of my statement, I meant that if Kane decides not to shoot today, I would be up for lynching him. And by day, I mean D2.

Yeah, ok.

But I think you guys (especially lurkers) should carefully consider who I should shoot, instead of being like "oh shoot granola now". I'd be fine with shooting Granola, Yew, lurkers = Cat, beruru etc.

So, we basically have a second lynch now and please provide input about who I should shoot.

Unofficial On My Way Out the Door Votals:

Granola (3): anacreon, btp, Yewchung
Kane (3): Mirdini, Garuru, Pala
Garuru (1): Tea
Mathgirl (1): Kane
Credit (1): Granola


I wouldn't hate a Kane, Credit, Yewchung, btp, or beru lynch today.

Those votals seem low to anyone else? That's over half the game not voting. I'm one of the guilty parties I know, but I feel like there has been a decent amount of stuff happening.

@Anac - I'm not entirely comfortable with either of them. I may be tunneling here, but everything he is doing is some kind of sketchy. From egging people on yesterday to Credit on the other hand doesn't feel that much better. I feel like I should be on Credit's side here, but I'm getting some kind of weird vibes. 414 for example I don't like. I'll try and chase down exactly what I am getting these vibes from tonight.

Ok, seriously what is going on with this shooting thing? I get that it possibly gives us an extra lynch, and that is all fine in theory. However I really don't like anyone pushing for someone else to take that risk.

Like you Calibornio. If you are so sure that Kane is Town and Granola is not, and that means one should shoot the other. Then why don't you take the shot yourself? Trying to convince someone Townie to take a shot is one of the things we're upset at Granola for, but you're doing the exact same thing.

Anyway.

Vote: Granolaman

I'm going to come back tonight and make sure I'm not tunneling here. However like I said everything he has been doing has been some kind of sketchy. 410 is what made me decide to get all aboard this train right now though.

I've never bought into the fact that Third Party Hunting is a scummy act. It certainly can be, but here again you're trying to bully someone off of your case by implying how scummy they are for looking at you. Even a "benign" third party in the open is something I view as too dangerous to leave lying around. They are not town, and they will only act town and try and ensure our win as long as it serves their own purposes. They can decide the winner of a game at the right moment, and if we decide to let them sit around until they become potentially dangerous it may already be too late.

That claim was actually really iffy and I don't believe it. Claiming pseudo-BP on being quicklynched seems like something scum would do. Keeping my vote where it is.

I wasn't being quicklynched.

Yeah, ok.

But I think you guys (especially lurkers) should carefully consider who I should shoot, instead of being like "oh shoot granola now". I'd be fine with shooting Granola, Yew, lurkers = Cat, beruru etc.

So, we basically have a second lynch now and please provide input about who I should shoot.

If I want to shoot someone I will do it myself. I especially don't like leaving it up to a vote like this.

Vote: No shot.

And, as I've mentioned, if you are town, you've nullified your usefulness with your claim.

No matter your side, it was an anti-town move.

How do I nullify usefulness? I volunteer myself as a second lynch chance that will be able to survive and continue talking until day end...nothing about that would have changed.

I'm thinking that we should all agree on three people for Kane to suivig on, then he can pick one of those three, so scum won't be able to reflexively suivig.

Kane, I may have been using the term wrong, but what I meant was that people were voting you rather quickly.

I didn't say we had to shoot granola, just that that seems to be something a lot of people were for at the time. I had Tea as a second choice of suivig, but there's more definitive evidence that granola's some kind of 3rd party. And I don't want to suivig since my power doesn't have anything to do with suivig and I don't want to die right now. And Kane offered to let us decide who he shoots. My reasoning for believing Kane over granola is that claiming your role in the middle of day, especially when your role involves dying, doesn't really seem like something scum would do and granola's been pretty wonky recently.

Kane: Your role has(had) a lot of opportunity for subterfuge. You could've pretended to be a cop or something and tempt a scum to suivig you if they were trapped. You could've set up an ultimatum between you and a scumspect and used surviving the kill as a modfirm. You could've simply played supertown and absorbed a bullet in the night like a regular bp, dumping info the morning after before you die.

Boogeyman: The difference between you on my wagon and credit is that I don't mind you being there. You assume I have some form of cunning or manipulation prowess (bullying counts) and are basing your vote off of that. ICan'tGiveCredit is apparently not giving me credit and is lynching me on the premise that a scummy or third party player would act super-obvious-hyper-scummy on day one.

As for Kane shoots school of thought, you guys are already making plans around his death, and letting him get off his suivig in the process. If he's actually scum, what will stop him from shooting Pala or Mirdini or anyone he fucking chooses?! If we don't end up lynching him, whatever, but can we at least put enough votes on him to ban his gun? Vote: Kane

I wouldn't mind a granola shot. Cat/beru should still be shot (yes I know cat is doin' exams, but that doesn't explain the huge expanse of time before she said this). But yeah, now I'm thinking that third-party hunting is not at all bad if they're trying to get random people to sui-vig. As long as they're not trying to get townies killed and are getting scum killed instead, keep'em. Sure, RIGHT NOW granola doesn't want townies dead (save for me :D) but he should be should be shot in a later Day when he can't help.

The situation is kind of like...

say granola is a mole (sorry about that granola ) on your face and we're in the future or something and moles are SO DAMN HOT for I-don't-know-what reason. So that gives you reason to keep it, even though it may be a hindrance to shaving or something.

But later, moles may not be so cool so you think, "Why the hell do I still have this? No one likes me and it's harder to shave with this." and then you surgically have it removed.

Not the best analogy but oh well.

So you can shoot either Cat or beru. If I had to choose between them, I'd say Cat because beru asked a strange question about whether or not we want to be sui-vigged.

And this elicited some responses I guess. It seems kind of like it was made up on the spot without much thought into it though. Kind of like a generic question that you can ask anybody and have them respond back with as much detail as you want.

Ex. beru's question: "Why is this chair so comfortable?"

Us: Well it's comfortable for a number of reasons, really, there's the lumbar support and the blah blah blah..."

What beru SHOULD be asking: "Where was this chair made?"

"Germany"

BAM just like that, you get a precise, response.

Now I would like to ask a question:

WHERE IS TEA

WHERE IS SEA

AND WHERE IS SEE-DEEEEEEE

Can we wait and have Kane shoot D3? I mean, then he'll be alive longer after he's already a dead man. Given that he claimed, I think it might be the best course of action.
wtf am i doing i have ap tests i should be studying. cya later
@Boogeyman: maybe kane just wasn't experienced enough to have thought of using it secretly. I don't think claiming was a good idea (or ever is, really), but it's not simple to think up plans when you have a role that seem so obvious from the outside.
@Credit: I think I get what you mean about beru but I don't really understand the "granola is like a mole" analogy at all? Care to explain?
okay I'm outta here I really really need to go study. I might not be back for a day or so. I'll try to not be too lurky but no promises. Real life is annoying :/.

If we don't end up lynching him, whatever, but can we at least put enough votes on him to ban his gun? Vote: Kane

No, because he's useful. I'd much rather lynch you than him. Though you're trying to be useful so you aren't a very good lynch target. I'd rather vote on the scumspects: Cat and beruru

But i don't know which.

hmmmmmmmmm

beru, because she's given me more reason to lynch her.


Vote: beruru

Can we wait and have Kane shoot D3? I mean, then he'll be alive longer after he's already a dead man. Given that he claimed, I think it might be the best course of action.

I agree with this.

I'm not sure how i feel about Kane's claim. I dont read it the same as i did Pilot's claim, and im not sure if i believe it. Even if i believe it...its not exactly necessarily town. And if it is town, just how much defensive roles does this game have?

RE: Cat/Beruru lynch. I could get behind either of them but... it feels like a cop-out. They are, collectively, the perennial fall-back lynch, and it has nothing to do with what their alignment is in this game and everything to do with the way they play in general. In short: A meta-based lynch. The reason im willing to get behind their lynches is because i feel really starved of information. Anything is better than nothing, and whilst i still don't like the thought of a speed-lynch, i'd much rather this day didn't end in a No Lynch too. (Although, i would like a "real" wagon/pressure ob a target to milk them of information/reads before we commit to a lynch, if at all).

tl;dr:
1) Kane should wait till tomorrow to shoot (we'll have rather more to go on: he's a man on borrowed time).
1a) If Kane DOES shoot, he's prolly best off going for Granola, who seems to be consensusly considered a 3P.
2) Cat/Beruru lynch is acceptable if it is the result of pressure, but not if it is a speedlynch based solely on meta.

@Credit: I think I get what you mean about beru but I don't really understand the "granola is like a mole" analogy at all? Care to explain?

Why yes.

Here is a picture of a mole.



as you can see, the brown thing is there on your face. You may think it is unsightly. And you may think that it is very hard to shave the hair around it (if you're a guy (you aren't (are you? ))) But you'd be wrong. For some reason, some people actually like moles, and even like to call them "beauty marks". But as time passes, more and more people may not like them. So you have it surgically removed.

That mole is Granola in its early stage

Oh yea, forgot to vote: Vote: Beruru.

Kane: Your role has(had) a lot of opportunity for subterfuge. You could've pretended to be a cop or something and tempt a scum to suivig you if they were trapped. You could've set up an ultimatum between you and a scumspect and used surviving the kill as a modfirm. You could've simply played supertown and absorbed a bullet in the night like a regular bp, dumping info the morning after before you die.

I am a pretty noobie noob, and it would be extremely hard to pull off that (any of those plans) successfully while also not getting lynched. Under a few votes, I don't think claiming cop would have looked better than claiming my actual role. In addition, the surviving kill is useless except for me to survive for discussion; modfirming would only confirm my role not my alignment. Getting killed in the night gets me killed. None of what you said would have worked. Instead, there have been reactions and some discussion about my claim.

In addition, why are you voting me just for "screwing up" my role?

Kane I don't exactly trust you after role-claiming so easily. Also people seem to be telling you to shoot at me and you seem somewhat inclined to agree with them. My vote is not an intent to lynch per say, but rather an attempt to put a gunban on you while we figure out an alternate lynch.

As a gesture of some faith, Deadline Vote: Beru. I forgot these existed, but if we count them separately, then I can keep you from getting stupid ideas while still helping others with the pressure.

Also yeah, I am fully aware deceptive plans like those are hard to pull, especially in a crowd like this.