Nostalgfia - GAME OVER SCUM WIN

Waiting on Spoids to get back to the thread with her not-just-Pharmsstuff post before I want to move the game on though. Worst case we can always do a day extension again, this day feels like it might need one.

I should REALLY post more here tbh. So this post is a reminder to me to be more active.

At this point I support either an n-o lynch or a Reyweld lynch, and I know there are more potential options right now but with the 10th approaching, perhaps we should narrow these options down a bit???? Not reaching even soft lynch sounds extremely bad at this point. I think n-o and Reyweld have the most against them, whereas most of the other options I'm still kind of in two minds about.

Right, day extensions are available. I also support that.

Just as a refresher since we haven't had one since day 2 so people don't start tossing out day-extension votes that don't do anything:

- If 40% (rounded up) of living players request a day extension (in public or in private) within the final 24 hours of the day, day will be extended for another 48 hours. This can be done repeatedly.

so can't really get that going for another 22 hours (assuming we need it, which looks like we may so I'm bringing it up) but yeah s'on the table.

Okay so annendum - I thought the town roleblocker died later than they did for some reason, so yeah fair enough there's probably some actual roleblocking going around (though I think that's the only roleblock that can be verified?) Was there anything else I misinterpreted Mirdini because I think that was the big thing?

Sunspider not sure if you tackled this but what are your thoughts on Pharmacy having both a poisoning role and a busdriving one via your theory? Isn't it just as if not more likely that Pharmacy got poison from a giftbox or something and decided not to use it on someone? Also also I get that you didn't want to mess with people but if you thought the poison was suspicious and being carried by a suspicious person why didn't you take it in that specific case?

Akumu what was Reyweld's mistake? Also in an all power role game making town's only pure protective role (so far anyways) tied to scum actually makes a lot of sense to me, though I'm still iffy on Schazer's alignment and think they're probably scum if Dini is (but less likely if he's town).

Wheat I'll vote for n-o if that's the only thing that will happen but now that they posted (mainly the way they did) I think that they're more likely careless town or a lyncher so it's probably a wasted kill.

Of note, and probably the most important thing - if Mirdini got a bomb today that means that a likely scum inventor tried to hit Reyweld with a bomb roleblock. A weird choice, but I don't particularly want to lynch him because of it (unless Pharms turns out to be scum). Semi-related note, a weird combination of Choice People (Mirdini, Akumu, Schazer by my count today) seem to actually believe that I was somehow the only person out of the large number to die/claim without an active role which means that me living without a block kind of suspicious! I could be convinced to kill off Akumu but like I said Schazer is someone I'd rather lynch after Mirdini if it came to it.

Laser at this point at least one of Sunspider or Pharmacy is scum, considering they have essentially counter-claimed each other (Sunspider said she's seen poison in Pharms' inventory, Pharmacy has said she's never had poison in her inventory). This holds unless there's actually another (scum) redirection that targeted Pharms last night and a town!Sunspider actually saw someone else's inventory, not town!Pharmacy's.

Sunspider: in addition to the 'how much poison' question I asked you earlier, what was Pharmacy's inventory like *exactly* (at the start of Night Four since that's what you said re: checking?) in terms of food?

@Palamedes I think you're not realizing how poison seems to work - unless there's a scum role that's somehow immune to it, having it in your inventory for any reason poisons you. So that would be why a town!Sunspider would not want to steal it, and why a town Pharmacy opening it from a giftbox doesn't make sense (Pharms would be poisoned and have said as much).

Being first vote on a lynch is not necessarily leading it, Wheat :P

*having poison enter your inventory for any reason, I would assume if you get antidote'd and have poison in your inventory it can sit there just fine

So anyways yeah, I think unless Pharms turns out to be evil Reyweld should be moved into the probably town category along with Wheat (albeit at a lower level since we don't know Pharmacy's alignment).

As suspicious as I still am of Mirdini he's right about votes, I would vote Sunspider since that makes more sense to me (I think Pharmacy is more likely town based on playstyle though her death would clear up other issues so it's close). That said, I think Pharmacy being poisoner/busdriver is a bit much so Sunspider probably got redirected (unless Pharms is claiming the busdriver role of a scummate who has already claimed something else).

Also in an all power role game making town's only pure protective role (so far anyways) tied to scum actually makes a lot of sense to me, though I'm still iffy on Schazer's alignment and think they're probably scum if Dini is (but less likely if he's town).

ngl I'm far less convinced than you that a town doctor being mason'd to a mafia player is a real possibility, that's a trade I would make as scum on night 1 every time and would basically instantly doom the doctor player.

plus, I don't think Sol would claim doctor to her mason partner unless they had their alignments confirmed to each other or Sol had some other proof that Schaz was on the level

speaking of which, actually, @Schazer, did you and Sol have your alignments confirmed to each other or did you just decide to trust each other bc of item shenanigans?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Seedy didn't 'lead' the robottobt lynch despite literally leading in the voting order, because she did not have to argue for it in any way, shape or form to get other people to jump on. Robottobt was widely agreed to be a lynch target on D3 due to the weirdass claim they were making, and CSJ being absurdly scummy on that day was probably the only thing that stopped them from being lynched then. So when day 4 rolled around and seedy posted all of this

anyways
vote: Robottobt



p.s. wheat any comments on trying to get people to vote for n-o over the mafia roleblocker and the mafia godfather? :P

she was just the first to get back on the previous days' lynching leads rather than 'leading' a lynch in any way, at least imo

this

oh I think n-o is lynchable, I just also think it’s funny that wheat’s in this position

anyways Robot and Sunspider are probably both scum, and scum being in Pharms or Reyweld wouldn’t surprise me (I don’t think it’s both cuz mafia is probably 5 people I think? so 3 remaining? correct me if wrong)

unfortunately afaik Sunspider is also busybusy doing important non-mafia things

is literally the only other time she mentions robottobt that day. Not really 'leading' a lynch.

dog please stop being obtuse ;-;

things have changed since I posted that, not least that robottobt flipped town which changed things, Reyweld claiming which changed things, Sunspider claiming which changed things, I could go on

re: 'what happened to pharmacy being scummy' I am saying 'probably pharms or sunspider is scum given current evidence' 10 posts ago

As I've discussed before Laser's claim is not directly counterclaiming anyone (apart from 'if all of Reyweld/Pharms/Dini turn up town then RL is probably scum'), in a setup with this many roleblocks and a godfather and a miller town and redirection having a scientist and a shotgun cop as town is not an absurd level of power.

Could RL still be scum? Yeah, it's possible.

Do I think it's the case? Based on their play and how the game has shaken out, no, not really!

tbh wheat n-o is currently the lynch with the most votes (2) so idk why you’re so worked up. just work to convince one more person and you’re good
pala that’s an interesting point if mirdini did get a bomb last night, dang. Big If True as the kids say

mirdini I thought Sunspider claimed to have checked pharms n3 and then got blocked by a candy last night?

based on what we know about previous nights it seems like there might be a redirection from an unclaimed party on top of the bussing going on?

also again if softlynch happens my noose will activate. I’m good with that but others might not be (otoh it might be better to save the noose fallback for option for when there’s NO softlynch)

*dog points at only one of the masons being alive; a surviving mixmason doesn't have to answer truthfully bc their partner is dead*

good good dog, I know this, that doesn't mean the question isn't worth asking

mirdini I thought Sunspider claimed to have checked pharms n3 and then got blocked by a candy last night?

you may be right there, I may be getting sort of confused between bombs and candy because according to GM word in my quicktopic the bomb roleblock happens last in the action order (since it's permanent and all) which means you can still get an action off the night you receive a bomb (for the first time) - thus my blocking robottobt N3 despite being bomb'd.

if turkish delight blocks the night you receive it I guess Spoids would have had to have checked Pharms n3 yeah (again assuming Spoids is telling the truth here)

I'm not sure what 'previous voting rationale' you're referring to wheat, robottobot made a really weird/scum-feeling claim on Day 3 involving visiting two players in the night, Night 3 I reasoned 'hey, you know what else visits two players, busdrivers!', I decided to block robottobt because a scum busdriver is inevitably bad news for town

Nercania-Orccelga being involved in both the N2 and N3 watching targets is pretty weird though, I can agree on that.

Robust Laser's Day 3 'oh my god my checks have been worthless all along? wtf!' reaction to Seedy being a miller coming up again felt (and still feels) *very* much like new-ish town to me. Yeah, it could theoretically have been some sort of grand scum fakeclaim setup, but RL was under no real pressure at the time (beyond a 'hey you should post' poke) and I don't see why they would go with such a powerful roleclaim that forces them into the focal point of the game at that juncture if they were scum. Their posts since have also felt pretty town!

I’m kind of confused as to how a redirecter would work with roles like RL’s and robot’s though
do the mods rng which of the targets is switched out for the redirecters choice? or what?
also Pala visiting robot n3 is...confusing hmm

Solaris was the one to ask me what I was thinking re: alignment, my take was "unsure but leaning coaligned."

Then I lost my ammo and figured it was a scum role stealing my inventory and I'd be a prime nk target being the owner of an unstealable gun, so I dropped all info on Solaris and also learned what the doctoring item is.

Also wheat I'm getting the sense you're reading me as anti-town because (among other reasons) I'm not appearing super on-board with the n-o lynch.

Honestly? I'm ok with an n-o lynch today but am all for having a day full of proper discussion like we've had so far. Sadly I'm at that stage where the only thing people have to do to drop down my suspicion list is Just Post and be active. Gimme a couple of days. Or don't!

I disagree and would lynch Laser as well, I had forgotten about that with all of the other stuff going on.

I also find the whole nothing amounting to anything schtick and the fact that when there was barely any roleblocking going on in the early days now every other person is roleblocked (forever but also apparently not?) overly convenient which is another reason I don't want to waste time on n-o who feels like yet another Robo lynch in the making.

seedy I'm pretty sure any redirecting roles have control over who they redirect? Pharmacy's seemed to at least.

I hope I have some control over redirects otherwise what's the point of busdriver.

hmm thinking more about redirecting
redirecter isn't pala or n-o unless hijinks (awkwardcarapace was seemingly the one redirected that night, since they weren't trying to visit CSJ but still ended up on a52. unless the redirecter for some reason also shows up at the target they choose (which would be out of keeping with how the role usually works) we can be reasonably sure that it isn't one of them. (unless they were handing off items which I THINK can give you a visit (so far I've only tried to hand off a pog++ and an antidote, so I don't know if it works for items that don't have a visit built in or are useless)).
it most likely is not schazer, it isn't mirdini or wheat or pharmacy (unless scum is playing musical chairs with roles for no reason), it isn't me

in all likelihood it is one of Sunspider, Reyweld, or Akumu

looking at the night results, pharmacy says n1 they bussed wheat and reyweld. wheat says they were trying to visit granola but visited themself. this means that they were redirected into visiting Reyweld? but it also means the redirecter was trying to target Reyweld. so the redirecter was trying to redirect reyweld onto reyweld???

Cat says "none of you are right do you just want me to say it so we can move past this ", later suggesting (post 434?) she targeted Wheat & Schaz N1 to swap their inventories.

wheat if you never saw schaz's magic gun then that means that...either CSJ or Sunspider attempted to thieve it OR it went to Reyweld briefly and Reyweld has simply never mentioned this? I think that this is the only way it works out if Schaz is telling the truth. so yeah. I feel like CSJ might have mentioned this...OTOH that might explain his "not just a mason comment" so who knows. we also might be confused about what cat meant, so hey.
also important to note here that pharmacy DOES appear to a52 visiting wheat this night but does NOT appear to a52 visiting them the following night. odd!! gosh I wish I had passed the antidote to a52 (no offense schaz) but I thought someone had already given them some. the squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say

n2 awkwardcarapace was redirected onto CSJ (ended up on a52 due to pharmacy's bussing.)

these feel like rather odd choices for a scum redirecter...directing wheat onto reyweld and awkwardcarapace onto CSJ. you don't usually redirect onto teammates...unless pharmacy is also scum so they knew the redirections would get busdriven?

Pala what I mean is that a redirecter typically makes their target's night action hit a person of the redirecter's choosing instead
in a situation like wheat, who has TWO targets, or awkwardcarapace, who has multiple targets, I'm curious how it's decided. it probably isn't just switching all the targets to the redirecter's choice (since a52 didn't seem to have been bombarded by items from awkwardcarapace. wheat SEEMS to have visited schazer, but that might be due to cat's actions). it MIGHT be rng-swapping out one of the targets for the redirecter's choice? idk
then again maybe it's a 1-way busdriving and the mods don't have to worry about all that.

in that scenario what I said about who it likely is still stands. it is harder to work out what happened during the night due to the fact that I'd then have to contend with not knowing which busdriving comes first in the action order. but given that wheat managed to get schazer's ammo, then...ok cat definitely implies that she targetted wheat and schaz. this means she targetted reyweld and schaz. wheat manages to somehow still obtain ammo from schazer. I'm trying to understand how this works if pharmacy is telling the truth.
if it's a 1-way busdriver that comes first then wheat gets driven off of granola onto REYWELD.
THEN pharmacy's driving happens
THEN wheat targets granola(Reyweld(self)) and Schaz, cat targets wheat(Reyweld) and schaz

if it's a 1-way busdriver that comes second then I think it has to be
pharmacy busdrives wheat and reyweld
??? busdrives actions targetting granola onto wheat(reyweld)
etc.

if it's redirecting then
pharmacy busdrives
redirecter targets Reyweld(wheat) onto Reyweld(wheat)
etc.

if I am working this correctly and it isn't complete nonsense then the main difference is which person the mystery person was trying to target
also trying to understand this is making me think that the mystery person and pharmacy aren't aligned because...why do this bullshit to yourself if you're scum. you'd need to confirm with the mod to make sure it'd even go through the way you wanted cuz night action precedence lists are con-fu-sing

I don't know anymore. anyway here's my post trying to work out some of the nonsense that happened n1-n2. these choices don't make a whole lot of sense for scum, honestly. moving actions onto either wheat or reyweld? moving them onto CSJ??? you don't usually try and get people to target your scumbud. but...I'd be hard pressed to believe it's a town Akumu, or that town Sunspider or town Reyweld are lying about their roles for no reason.

this has been my 1 AM mafia mechanic stress dream but it's real post