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intrepidPioneer · 05-12-2016, 04:14 AM

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Emily: Say something to confirm your realness. Something only someone outside the construct would know

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Heyoceama · 05-12-2016, 04:45 AM

Well fuck. Things just keep getting worse.

martialAcademic · 05-12-2016, 06:38 AM

Well shit, this continues to add evidence to my theory that Alice/Daydream is going to end up with a bullet in her by the end of this, and not by our hands. Emily having her set of values seems to be a (for lack of a better term) godsend. Otherwise I don't think this conversation would have gone off as (using this word loosely) well as it has.

This might also be able to be used as a wedge between Lucas and her, assuming he doesn't know about it. A man in love may be or do many things, but think logically in regards to relationships is not known to be among them. If he finds out what happened between Daydream and Derrick I'm not entirely sure what he would do. He could go after Derrick, or start working against Daydream out of spite.

Key information: Daydream said she had Lucia's dad killed, and messed up her eye. The important question for this information is "did she mean only in the construct, or in real life?". Either way that's not going to help her relationship with Lucia, but it matters in the context of how much would it hurt if Lucia got her memories back, as well as what it could mean if Lucia totally disbelieves it in construct. We might be able to use this as something to either break the construct, or help Lucia to disbelieve it. It may also lend some credence to Ghen if it's only in construct, since he said the events that happened to Lucia's father here didn't happen outside the construct.

Also, Daydream is VERY certain that there is no possible way that Derrick would believe Emily. It seems to me that her plans and judgement are not quite up to snuff in this regard, as she doesn't seem to have noticed that Derrick is already dubious of her. Not to mention, there are ways of certifiably telling if somebody is lying or not. Lucia could use a lie detecting bullet on Emily, and she could repeat this in front of Derrick as proof. Time travel and various such mechanics exist where Derrick could watch the event as well. This is assuming we want to do such a thing, as well as what to look out for if somebody else decides to try any of these things when we don't want them to.

As for what to actually do about Daydream... well, as far as I'm concerned I think we should still find a way to deal with her, one way or the other. That has always been my opinion though. I'm more of a "practical problems" kind of guy, so I'll leave figuring out all the implications to you fine folk.

Fellow · 05-12-2016, 07:08 AM

Well, this is a headache.
I hope Lucia doesn't know. I bet Nightmare does, though. Lucas might also because of dawn powers and stuff.

neferiusNexus · 05-12-2016, 08:22 AM

oookay... so there was no mumbling from Bob during the conversation, which means i was wrong, which is awesome!
It means we might be able to influence Emily to overcome her initial shock and give DD the help she so badly needs.

>Emily: You now have Daydream at a disadvantage. To get her to trust you, confide your own worse sins with her. Then make it clear to her that she clearly does not love Derrick enough, since loving someone implies wanting to protect them from everyone and everything, including yourself.

>Daydream: i don't judge you. The best thing about being us, is that we can rely on each-other to make the best decisions. But you have friends, which is exactly the same! You should try relying on them more often.

TerraTorment · 05-12-2016, 09:32 AM

I knew it, I knew alice was the mastermind behind lucia's incident and her father's death, part of my theory was right!. Every single theory I had about the "implied rape" part was wrong though. well played ip, Although I was correct in assuming alice was involved in something like this, I was so close.

This update changed how I view Alice, now i'll express my actual feelings on the matter, they are so volatile i'll have to contain them inside spoiler tags

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neferiusNexus · 05-12-2016, 11:45 AM

There's another thing that bears discussing...

Quote:Daydream: It was a long time ago for me.
Daydream: But just now for Alice.

I honestly hope she's lying about it already having happened, otherwise i feel like we've somehow let Derrick down.

Maybe Emily can somehow bring DayDream along with her and travel back in time to a point where DD could intervene? But then we'd also have to convince PAST DD to go along with the plan and create a stable time-loop... somehow >.>

Not gonna lie, this is quite a bombshell IP dropped on us, but we have to be strong enough to set aside our emotions and do what we do best: rationalize a way out of this.

Derrick's virginity lies in the balance you guise!
(omfg, i can't believe i just typed that xD)

ActivelyAnonymous · 05-12-2016, 01:13 PM

Well... wow. I had a feeling that something like this would happen, but the fact that it already had...

Setting aside the many things running through my head right now (was it the Lewdcidstuck? Was it my fault for bringing that up too much??? Baseless guilt??? Nah, iP probably had this planned from the beginning, as always.), assuming that yes, this event has already happened timeline-wise, the alcoholic effects on Derrick and what followed would explain why we haven't seen him in a while, plot-wise and possibly mechanic-wise.

For experimental reasons, I wonder what alcohol (and sexual activity) does to one's Lucid dreaming, if anything at all?

What do we do when we meet Derrick next, whether being Derrick or being somebody else meeting him?

Also, Daydream says Derrick was, "not conscious, shit-faced drunk, will not remember anything". Yet it's possible that this could remain with Derrick in some subconscious way. Considering dreams in their essence reflect the subconscious, something could happen around/to Derrick. And it could be pretty bad...

The best way possible to solve this would be to undo the event, at least in-construct. Anything but that will have massive repercussions on Derrick, Emily, Alice, Lucia, Lucas... hell everything could go to shit.

...

Damn, iP, back at it again with the contrite plans!

Panur · 05-12-2016, 01:22 PM

well... i did the stream. my internet fucked up halfway, but you got my reaction XD

>Emily: wonder what kind of reaction Daydream is trying to get out of you. If she doesn't care what you think, why make herself sound so bad? Why the unneeded details?

get on ip, i got questions for you +___+

martialAcademic · 05-12-2016, 03:23 PM

(05-12-2016, 01:22 PM)Panur Wrote: »well... i did the stream. my internet fucked up halfway, but you got my reaction XD

>Emily: wonder what kind of reaction Daydream is trying to get out of you. If she doesn't care what you think, why make herself sound so bad? Why the unneeded details?

get on ip, i got questions for you +___+

This.

There's also always the option that Daydream lied about parts of things, or even entire things to get a reaction from Emily. Especially considering that she's also trying to figure out if Emily is real or not.

lovelypenguin · 05-12-2016, 05:12 PM

Holy crud, that is dark! This, uh...this *might* be a problem for my 11-year-old sister who's currently reading through the comic...

Realllly hope Daydream is lying about a lotta that stuff...It wouldn't exactly be out of character for her to do something like this to get a reaction. But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of it was true, given how much she obsesses over Derrick.

Regardless of whether she's lying or not, IP, it might be a good idea to put a warning at the beginning of the comic that it's gonna cover dark themes like this. I myself have no problems with this kind of material, but like I said, my little sister started reading the comic a while back, and now that I know it covers themes like this, I'm kind of concerned.

intrepidPioneer · 05-12-2016, 05:21 PM

(05-12-2016, 05:12 PM)lovelypenguin Wrote: »Holy crud, that is dark! This, uh...this *might* be a problem for my 11-year-old sister who's currently reading through the comic...

Realllly hope Daydream is lying about a lotta that stuff...It wouldn't exactly be out of character for her to do something like this to get a reaction. But then again, I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of it was true, given how much she obsesses over Derrick.

Regardless of whether she's lying or not, IP, it might be a good idea to put a warning at the beginning of the comic that it's gonna cover dark themes like this. I myself have no problems with this kind of material, but like I said, my little sister started reading the comic a while back, and now that I know it covers themes like this, I'm kind of concerned.

Yeah, as far as implications go, it doesn't delve much deeper than this. But out of respect for the readers, I will mention at the beginning of the mirror.

neferiusNexus · 05-12-2016, 05:50 PM

(05-12-2016, 05:12 PM)lovelypenguin Wrote: »Holy crud, that is dark! This, uh...this *might* be a problem for my 11-year-old sister who's currently reading through the comic...

Wow... i feel bad for you dude :o
Although, to be fair, a comic as gory as this one probably wasn't a good idea for an 11-year-old's reading perusal.

If your lil sis cares about you, try to convince her that, for her own good, she should stop reading until she's ready to deal with all the dark and heartbreaking stuff ...if ever.

Try to downplay the "dark and edgy" aspect of the comic if she's into that, and just mention that there's a scene where she might feel really sad and betrayed and angry and that it's probably best for her to remember the characters as they are.

(05-12-2016, 01:22 PM)Panur Wrote: »well... i did the stream. my internet fucked up halfway, but you got my reaction XD

"Noooo~ Daydream, you don't need Christian values, you just need common Human values to know that rape is BAD!"

Yyep :I

Another command that would make sense:
>Piper: Alright missy, hold your horses! First of all, Emily is not the religious fanatic you make her out to be. You don't need to be a damn saint to know that rape is bad, you just need to be a decent human being. And second of all, for your own sake I hope you at-least had the common sense to use a condom.

The One Guy · 05-12-2016, 05:59 PM

Wow. I spent some time to take all this in, and one thing that really stuck out to me is this line: "Daydream: Besides getting Lucia's father killed and getting her eye fucked up, that is my biggest sin." This confirms some things and explains Lucia's eye symbolism, but it tells us even more about what she didn't do: Unless she's lying here, she didn't kill her parents, and she didn't kill her foster parents!

But also something doesn't add up here: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lucia getting her eye messed up was likely due to the incident with her stepdad. If Daydream is referring to getting Lucia's real dad killed, then why does the statement imply it happens in the same incident. If she'd referring to getting Lucia's stepdad killed, then why would Alice want him dead when him dying would be to Lucia's benefit? ... Though considering the incident, her intent may have been to kill Lucia.

Panur · 05-12-2016, 06:21 PM

(05-12-2016, 05:59 PM)The One Guy Wrote: »Wow. I spent some time to take all this in, and one thing that really stuck out to me is this line: "Daydream: Besides getting Lucia's father killed and getting her eye fucked up, that is my biggest sin." This confirms some things and explains Lucia's eye symbolism, but it tells us even more about what she didn't do: Unless she's lying here, she didn't kill her parents, and she didn't kill her foster parents!

But also something doesn't add up here: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lucia getting her eye messed up was likely due to the incident with her stepdad. If Daydream is referring to getting Lucia's real dad killed, then why does the statement imply it happens in the same incident. If she'd referring to getting Lucia's stepdad killed, then why would Alice want him dead when him dying would be to Lucia's benefit? ... Though considering the incident, her intent may have been to kill Lucia.

....or she doens't really consider those sins : I

neferiusNexus · 05-12-2016, 06:26 PM

Quote:Emily: Well, did you completely destroy him??

How tactfully put there Emily ^^

And now for something completely different!

TerraTorment · 05-12-2016, 06:41 PM

(05-12-2016, 05:59 PM)The One Guy Wrote: »Wow. I spent some time to take all this in, and one thing that really stuck out to me is this line: "Daydream: Besides getting Lucia's father killed and getting her eye fucked up, that is my biggest sin." This confirms some things and explains Lucia's eye symbolism, but it tells us even more about what she didn't do: Unless she's lying here, she didn't kill her parents, and she didn't kill her foster parents!

But also something doesn't add up here: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lucia getting her eye messed up was likely due to the incident with her stepdad. If Daydream is referring to getting Lucia's real dad killed, then why does the statement imply it happens in the same incident. If she'd referring to getting Lucia's stepdad killed, then why would Alice want him dead when him dying would be to Lucia's benefit? ... Though considering the incident, her intent may have been to kill Lucia.

Can you elaborate a bit more on the lucia eye symbolism? i've been racking my brain on that for a while now, and yes, I believe DD here is reffering to lucia's real dad. Him dying caused lucia's mom to marry that drunk guy that annoyed lucia so much, and we still don't know exactly how DD staged the shooting.

The One Guy · 05-12-2016, 07:04 PM

(05-12-2016, 06:41 PM)TerraTorment Wrote: »Can you elaborate a bit more on the lucia eye symbolism?

What's there to elaborate? Lucia's symbol is an eye and she has marks under one of her eyes. This corresponds to Alice having messed up one of her eyes.

(05-12-2016, 06:41 PM)TerraTorment Wrote: »i've been racking my brain on that for a while now, and yes, I believe DD here is reffering to lucia's real dad. Him dying caused lucia's mom to marry that drunk guy that annoyed lucia so much, and we still don't know exactly how DD staged the shooting.

Ok, yeah, the more information I'm finding in the comic, it seems like you're right. And though it wasn't the same incident that killed her dad and messed up her eye, it was all part of the same plan, hence why both actions were said in one line.

ForestGardener · 05-12-2016, 07:07 PM

So, the Alice that Lucas is currently hanging out with is the one who just did that...

I'm thinking that if anyone else finds out, the whole situation will go down the tube really fast. One Lunatic was enough for now, thank you very much.

Perhaps Lucas already knows, and that is why he is depressed. He does remember the previous iterations.
Perhaps we should try to steer Alice towards Lucas?

lovelypenguin · 05-12-2016, 07:33 PM

Hmm...I'm guessing Lucia finding out about one or both of these things Daydream just admitted to...that's probably what made her wanna kill her, resulting in the accidental death of Derrick.

Still really, *really* hope she's lying about most or all of that stuff. >.<

Princezz · 05-12-2016, 07:45 PM

Well, that was....er...interesting.

I'd gotten the earlier hints about how her feelings for him were more than family, but I didn't expect it to go that far...and the worst part is, it seems that it has just happened, while we were busy commanding other characters.

intrepidPioneer · 05-12-2016, 08:07 PM

Emily: You now have Daydream at a disadvantage. To get her to trust you, confide your own worse sins with her. Then make it clear to her that she clearly does not love Derrick enough, since loving someone implies wanting to protect them from everyone and everything, including yourself

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tornskippito · 05-12-2016, 09:32 PM

Wow, this got a lot darker between the last two updates. It really does not look like Daydream's sanity is not doing well in the construct... she's gotten to the point where she really doesn't care, and likely actively looks forward to doing this every cycle. We can't really do anything about this right now though, as Daydream is holding together the construct, which we need in order to save Derrick...

Out of curiosity, do we still have access to the time travel gear, and does it go back to the last few panels derrick was in? If so, this cycle it could be undone, otherwise, welp.

I agree with lovelypenguin that this is what leads to Lucia attacking Alice, causing the death of Derrick. No wonder derrick has died every cycle... this is a constant throughout them all. It's also too late to have a cycle without this event occurring, so we will have to make due with it having happened.

Piper: Go Grimdark

Honestly, I have no commands. After Emily exits though, we may need her (or preferably lucia) to check up on Derrick's state.

The One Guy · 05-12-2016, 09:53 PM

(05-12-2016, 09:32 PM)tornskippito Wrote: »she's gotten to the point where she really doesn't care, and likely actively looks forward to doing this every cycle.

I got the exact opposite impression: She doesn't look forward to doing this anymore and is only still doing it because she cares about saving Derrick.

tornskippito · 05-12-2016, 09:58 PM

(05-12-2016, 09:53 PM)The One Guy Wrote: »I got the exact opposite impression: She doesn't look forward to doing this anymore and is only still doing it because she cares about saving Derrick.

Interesting. If it is true that this is one of the events that leads to Lucia going beserk on Alice, wouldn't it be at least worth one cycle to see what would happen if she let alice get some sleep, and then NOT do this to derrick? The fact that the construct has gone for so many cycles and this was not a variable messed with points to daydream not going to full lengths to save derrick.