Poll: Videogames or videogame accesories?

Mehgamehn · 09-27-2013, 08:05 PM

Perhaps the controller will work for you and only you

Robust Laser · 09-27-2013, 08:56 PM

You're pretty angry about them trying out something that I think is really cool.

Infrared · 09-27-2013, 09:22 PM

I don't understand the button layout. It looks terrible.

Imagine playing a platforming shooter with that.

Not The Author · 09-27-2013, 09:33 PM

Guns-shooting and -switching on the shoulder buttons, jumping/crouching on the pad or rear buttons, running on either the rear buttons or the pad edge. I can't speak to how the pads themselves would feel without using them, since I don't know what "haptic feedback" is, exactly, but I am imagining it and it sounds doable and not unpleasant.

I don't think the face buttons are integral to this controller's setup, and how easy or hard they are to reach will depend on the controller's size, which is not presently clear. The touchscreen does seem potentially awkward, though. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until we have hard data on how shit these things actually are.

E: Yeah, if you look at the Portal layout, it says they've mapped the controls based on frequency of use. The middle buttons are all communication-based, while the actual gameplay controls are mapped anywhere-but. The face buttons are supplementary to the other controls, rather than the primary mode of interaction.

I am probably missing one or more points.

Granolaman · 09-27-2013, 09:50 PM

The trackpads are a cool idea, but yeah as a platformer enthusiast I can't approve of the button layout.

Dear God, just think of having to do combo's with those. Fighting games are outright impossible on this thing.

Not The Author · 09-27-2013, 09:55 PM

I wish they would be more specific re: touchpad feedback, because I want them to mean the rumble will, say, follow where your thumb is and exert more force thereupon when your thumb is farther out, and a brief skim of Wikipedia seems to suggest that such a thing is possible... but Valve isn't speaking layman and I don't want to put all my hopes on a guess.

Granolaman · 09-27-2013, 10:06 PM

Actually, I just noticed there's different levels of clicking on the track pads. If they can differentiate between clicks on the top, bottom and sides of the pad then this might be salvageable or even cool.

Not The Author · 09-27-2013, 10:27 PM

Presumably, for the same reason you'd buy any other console: the hardware is higher-quality or lower-cost than some equivalent computer, with regards to playing games.

@Akumu, below: For one, I'm reasonably sure that Stupid Patent Or Copyright Bullshit would make designing a traditional controller inconveniently difficult. For two, Valve has been a computers company for ages, and I see this as applying principles of mouse design to controller design. The primary interaction is on the index and middle fingers, with supplementary "side" buttons on the thumb and ring finger.

Akumu · 09-27-2013, 10:34 PM

Speaking about haptic feedback on the "sticks," it does have the ridges which should let you find the center by touch, and it looks like they might be slightly concave, where if they had a non-constant curvature you could tell how far from the center you were touching by the local curvature.

It does seem odd that with their focus on making the entire library playable from one controller, that they have removed the possibility of a "directionality on one hand, actions on the other hand" layout which has been in controllers since time immemorial.

TickTickTockTock · 09-27-2013, 11:02 PM

If the track pads can be set for either directional sliding or distinct clicking, you might be able to bind one to act like a set of buttons.
Even without that, button quantity seems fine for everything but fighting games and some 3rd-person action with a lot of inputs. Personally, I'm just worried that trackpads will have shitty responsiveness, like every other trackpad that has been made in human history. If the haptic feedback isn't really really good, sticks would definitely be better.

Akumu · 09-27-2013, 11:03 PM

Nah man it's high fidelity. High fidelity!!

weirdee · 09-27-2013, 11:09 PM

i presume there might be a market for people who want to play pc games at steam sale prices (and the degree of customization one has with a pc, plus user made content and patches) because console offerings have burnt them, but don't actually want to deal with a pc, which is why they've pushed steam workshop as a middle ground

TickTickTockTock · 09-27-2013, 11:13 PM

Anyway, it doesn't matter and I'm buying all of them because
a. black buttons on a black background labeled in black
b. one-handed dota

Not The Author · 09-27-2013, 11:17 PM

(09-27-2013, 11:02 PM)TickTickTockTock Wrote: »button quantity seems fine for everything but fighting games and some 3rd-person action with a lot of inputs.

Genuine confusion and curiosity: could you back that up? There're six buttons immediately accessible-- eight counting the pad buttons-- which seems, to me, to be perfect for fighting games (barring pad responsiveness, natch).

And if the back buttons are used as shift functions, you have four functions per shoulder button (shoulder, shoulder + left back, shoulder + right back, and shoulder + both back) which comes to a total of sixteen separate inputs from six buttons. More than you'd need for most games, I'd think.

Granolaman · 09-27-2013, 11:25 PM

For fighting games your right hand needs to be on top of all the buttons you use. If the trackpad doesn't have directional clicking that means your combos are going to end up using weird variations of face buttons, triggers, and track pad. Left hand must stay on track pad so no using x and y.

Jacquerel · 09-27-2013, 11:26 PM

Only two of the face buttons are available when using the thumbstick, and usually you have more than two attacks that require directional input

BRPXQZME · 09-27-2013, 11:37 PM

(09-27-2013, 09:33 PM)Not The Author Wrote: »I don't know what "haptic feedback" is

It comes from a Greek root that boils down to “touching”. It’s things you can feel; the clicking of a microswitch, the resistance of a joystick, the force feedback of... dual linear resonant actuators.

re: the everything else
quote quote quote quote quote
jesus christ there’s like no way i can post that fast you guys i give up

Looking back at what Carmack was saying about controllers at QuakeCon last month, I wonder whether he had this in mind and was dancing around it to honor an NDA. He talked about other prototypes he’d been shown at Valve. It sounded a bit like this has some of the attributes he’d hinted would be desirable in a new generation of controllers. Certainly avoids the “zero button mouse” problem, at least.

~~Gen~~ · 09-28-2013, 02:03 AM

This really just seems to boil down to being an answer for games that we just can't see using a gamepad in any current iteration for. Fighting game fans have their sticks and hitboxes, 2D platformer fans have 360 pads and PS3 pads, though FPS, RTS, and general mouse controlled game fans need an answer for how they're going to play their games in the living room.

The thing I do like about all this is the theme of options. We get to choose if a steambox is right for our needs or not, there are going to be many forms of the steambox being made competitively by manufacturers and they aren't restricting our inputs to one form of controller over another. Steam in its entirety is trying to create an open environment in general and that's rad.

I'm also a big fan of touch screen+facebutton control schemes such as for the 3DS, WiiU, and PS4 since they open up a lot of possible neat gameplay control options that are exclusive to the worlds of touch screens and controllers and sort of marries them to get the best out of both.

Infinity Biscuit · 09-28-2013, 07:09 AM

So my reaction to the Steam controller being really weird for stuff built around the traditional console controller was actually "well everyone has 360 controllers and those should work so it's no big deal" but then I remembered that necessitating third party controllers to do stuff well was kind of the whole point of making a dedicated controller here :L

**Schazer** · 09-28-2013, 08:05 AM

Ok, so I went to Aoshima on the weekend and camped on the beach with a bunch of JETs. A bunch of people had to leave in a hurry because they were dumb buggers and got boxed in by hotel staff when they tried to load luggage in their parking lot, and me with the superior language skills had to negotiate an escape by apologising profusely.

Some good came out of it, though, because someone left behind two boxes of Tokyo Banana alongside the assorted crap and a decent water bottle. My neighbour (who organised the outing) reckoned it was a fair trade, and after trying one I did too.

[Image: TokyoBanana1-2.png]

Tokyo Banana are classified under omiyage, which are the obligatory souvenirs you have to bring back for colleagues/bosses/neighbours/friends when you make a trip out of town within Japan. Different prefectures and cities have their own signature omiyage, and Tokyo has Tokyo Banana. I don't think Miyazaki grows bananas, let alone Tokyo all the way up north, but that didn't seem to stop them.

They're kind of like a Hostess Snack but six million times better. I presume. I've never actually eaten a Hostess Snack. They're a banana-shaped super-soft sponge on the outside and banana... cream... custard... jam? Let's go with custard, on the inside. You know they're properly freshly made because their expiry date is only after a week or so.

BRPXQZME · 09-28-2013, 08:43 AM

I think I tried a Hostess snack cake once. I’m not actually sure. If I did, I must have coma’d from the sugar and hit the ground or something because it’s not a very clear memory.

Such snacks are also a poor combo with video games due to stickiness, I find. I don’t think I’ve ever been able to successfully combine media consumption and the partaking of sustenance. I can just get my snack on during an eye-break anyway.

**Schazer** · 09-28-2013, 08:59 AM

Haha whoops that was supposed to be food thread and I didn't even realise

Thanks for the sweet save, BRP

Infrared · 09-28-2013, 10:27 AM

I think it fits better in here. Also, they look criminally delicious.

I always get some jonesing for sugary things when i play vidjas.

VIDEOGAMES

Guys are we just gonna keep going after 100 pages? Or will we adopt the tradition from тнє σтнєя ƒσяυм ™

Pick Yer Poison · 09-28-2013, 07:30 PM

I vote yes. It's easier to keep the same subscription to the thread and I kind of like the prestige the big one oh oh adds (although that's just me).

Plus less work for the mods.

BRPXQZME · 09-28-2013, 08:17 PM

That Other Place does it for performance reasons; apparently vBulletin doesn’t handle long threads very well. Throw in the amount of traffic over there and now you got the same problem squared. I can’t find anything that says MyBB has that problem.

Basically, if it’s not choking up the performance, why bother?

Poll: Videogames or videogame accesories? You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
vidgajames	85.53%	65	85.53%
accesories	14.47%	11	14.47%
Total		76 vote(s)	100%