Lucidstuck II

Alice: That still doesn't answer why you are looking like Alice at the basic level. But regardless, I don't believe you understood what we meant with 'strategy' . With 'this path' we meant the sequence of events and motivations that led to the current events, as well as where you intend to go and what you intend to do in the future. Mutual understanding and expression of your motivations, methods chosen, and current goal are necessary for understanding how far we will go

Show Content

Show Chatlog
???: ......
???: I thought I had been quite clear. I suppose You are not interested in mutual understanding.
???: What purpose would you have to further ask questions when I extended you invitation to share something on your end.
???: I see that you understand I do indeed have information You want, but you are not interested in sharing what you know.
???: If that is the case then this conversation is over.
???: If you are indeed interested after all, by all means...
???: It does not bode well to seem defensive while the opposite party purposefully lowers their guard. Do not waste this.

If "Alice" ceases the conversation prematurally, some time will pass until Daydream is fooled into thinking she is no longer in an illusion, and the events will continue once more with Derrick.

>Alice: I apologize in advance on behalf of a very small, but vocal minority among us. Some of them appear to be moderately defensive regarding you on account of perceived attacks by you on their entertainment medium. I suspect it's a case of innate paranoia and a distrust of those outside of current informational awareness. They will settle down once they get used to talking to you. Their paranoia and is not rational, and as such, although I do not normally, will speak to avoid a botching of this social encounter. I consider it viable to establish a working relationship. I suspect that the others will realize such once they observe positive interactions. Do not pay excessive heed to the voices of the excessively paranoid, they do not speak for the majority. Considering we can speak to you, this means you are a viable source of interesting things.

Regardless. To answer your question. Our present priority goal, as we have been instructed, is to keep all Dreamers in this session alive and unpossessed until whatever constitutes the 'end state.' Secondary and tertiary goals are variable depending on the individual in question. My secondary would be 'observe interesting sequences of events and interactions.' Hence why I don't normally commune and instead watch.

>Alice: I apologize on behalf of several of the others. A number of them appear to have a fairly significant bias against you for reasons unknown to myself. Given, they had just as large a bias against Daydream prior to actually sitting down and talking to her, so I suspect it's a case of innate paranoia and a distrust of those outside of current informational awareness. They will settle down once they get used to talking to you. Just like they have for every single other instance of 'stranger danger' that they've run into. I do not consider this paranoia rational, and as such, although I do not normally, will speak to avoid a botching of this social encounter. I consider it viable to establish a working relationship. I suspect that the others will realize such once they observe positive interactions.

Regardless.To answer your question. Our present priority goal, as we have been instructed, is to keep all Dreamers in this session alive and unpossessed until whatever constitutes the 'end state.' Secondary and tertiary goals are variable depending on the individual in question. My secondary would be 'observe interesting sequences of events and interactions.' Hence why I don't normally commune and instead watch.
Now a question for you: Define this 'Void' you mentioned and what methods you have in mind for escaping it. You mentioned having an Illusion Dreamer produce an illusion 'real' enough to not be identifiable as an illusion being one option. Are there others that you have in mind? Are there any we may be able to facilitate?

[downvoting, you don't wanna be saying some of us are biased against ue, its gonna create friction, i'd advice we all reach a consensus first before posting, because this situation is extremely delicate and we dont want to make any more mistakes]

[Edited.]

>UE: In the instance you mentioned of us 'being defensive', we were asking for further elaboration, as well as stating that our answer to your previous request: "In return I ask that You help me understand how far this is going to go on." would require such elaboration to properly understand.

As for the information about us and our goals you requested: There are a variety of motivations among us, but the key one is entertainment. Specifically, deriving entertainment by ensuring the continued survival and well-being of the current group of Dreamers: Lucas, Garreth, Lexii, Emily, Lucia, Alice, Derrick, and associates. Another subgoal of immediate note is playing matchmaker and seeing certain relationships come to fruition, but that's far less important.

"In the instance you mentioned of us 'being defensive', we were asking for further elaboration, as well as stating that our answer to your previous request: "In return I ask that You help me understand how far this is going to go on." would require such elaboration to properly understand.

As for the information about us and our goals you requested: There are a variety of motivations among us, but the key one is entertainment. Specifically, deriving entertainment by ensuring the continued survival and well-being of the current group of Dreamers: Lucas, Garreth, Lexii, Emily, Lucia, Alice, Derrick, and associates. Another subgoal of immediate note is playing matchmaker and seeing certain relationships come to fruition, but that's far less important."

[seconding]

Allright, well, it's trying to get the upper hand so eff that. We need to make one thing very clear to it:

>We just witnessed you try to manipulate Lucia in killing one of her friends so you can posses them. You also just inadvertently admitted you care about nothing and nobody except this pet project of yours. Speaking for myself, it seems to me you've utterly lost your grip on what's Real and what's not,  so infatuated with your own power. How many times have you stolen some young child's life only to return here and do it all again? A wise man once said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. You want us to be more courteous? Fine, I have no trouble being referred to as an "ancient one" regardless of how true your assertion that you already know of us might be. However, it would also be polite on your part to introduce yourself with a name.

[downvoting, this command is too hostile towards ue, it just told us that if we don't work alongside it then it will not speak to us, and while we dont necessarily want to work with ue, we want to learn as much from it as we can and hopefully get it to release the kids, this goes against the consensus plan we discussed in the discord

again, the situation we're in is very delicate and we need to coordinate as best we can, i would advice posting a draft of your command first in the discord and talking it over with the others there, a string of bad choices led us to this and further bad choices could make us get a bad ending, i fear]

"In the instance you mentioned of us 'being defensive', we were asking for further elaboration, as well as stating that our answer to your previous request: "In return I ask that You help me understand how far this is going to go on." would require such elaboration to properly understand.

As for the information about us and our goals you requested: There are a variety of motivations among us, but the key one is entertainment. Specifically, deriving entertainment by ensuring the continued survival and well-being of the current group of Dreamers: Lucas, Garreth, Lexii, Emily, Lucia, Alice, Derrick, and associates. Another subgoal of immediate note is playing matchmaker and seeing certain relationships come to fruition, but that's far less important."

[seconding]

[Thirding]

>Alice: I apologize in advance on behalf of a very small, but excessively vocal minority among us. Some of them appear to be standoffish for reasons unknown to myself. I suspect it's a case of innate paranoia and a distrust of those outside of current informational awareness. They will settle down once they get used to talking to you. Their paranoia and is not rational, and as such, although I do not normally, will speak to avoid a botching of this social encounter. I consider it viable to establish a working relationship. I suspect that the others will realize such once they observe positive interactions. Do not pay excessive heed to the voices of the excessively hostile or paranoid, they do not speak for the majority.

>Alice: Regardless.To answer your question. Our present priority goal, as we have been instructed, is to keep all Dreamers in this session alive and unpossessed until whatever constitutes the 'end state.' Secondary and tertiary goals are variable depending on the individual in question. My secondary would be 'observe interesting sequences of events and interactions.' Hence why I don't normally commune and instead watch.

Allright, well, it's trying to get the upper hand so eff that. We need to make one thing very clear to it:

>We just witnessed you try to manipulate Lucia in killing one of her friends so you can posses them. You also just inadvertently admitted you care about nothing and nobody except this pet project of yours. Speaking for myself, it seems to me you've utterly lost your grip on what's Real and what's not,  so infatuated with your own power. How many times have you stolen some young child's life only to return here and do it all again? A wise man once said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. You want us to be more courteous? Fine, I have no trouble being referred to as an "ancient one" regardless of how true your assertion that you already know of us might be. However, it would also be polite on your part to introduce yourself with a name.

>We just witnessed you try to manipulate Lucia in killing one of her friends so you can posses them. You also just inadvertently admitted you care about nothing and nobody except this pet project of yours, so you'll forgive us for not trusting your words. How many times have you stolen some young child's life only to return here and do it all again? A wise man once said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. We should endeavor to be courteous towards each other however, so to that end I personally have no trouble being referred to as an "ancient one" regardless of how true your assertion that you already know of us might be. However, it would also be polite on your part to introduce yourself with a name.

[Downvoting. We need to work together and be coordinated, not preemptively undermine coordination or threaten UE. This is a hostage situation after all. None of us want this to go poorly, but we get nowhere  without working together]
[Edit:
This version of the command is still too hostile. Remember, we are in a hostage situation, and so far it looks like only a single command is getting through to UE. Imagine negotiating on the phone with the police, and asking for a straight answer, or else you'll hang up, and suddenly you start getting threats and hostility]

(Edited for rudeness:)

>We just witnessed you try to manipulate Lucia in killing one of her friends so you can posses them. You also just inadvertently admitted you care about nothing and nobody except this pet project of yours, so you'll forgive us for not trusting your words. How many times have you stolen some young child's life only to return here and do it all again? A wise man once said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. We should endeavor to be courteous towards each other however, so to that end I personally have no trouble being referred to as an "ancient one" regardless of how true your assertion that you already know of us might be. However, it would also be polite on your part to introduce yourself with a name.

>UE: In the instance you mentioned of us 'being defensive', we were asking for further elaboration, as well as stating that our answer to your previous request: "In return I ask that You help me understand how far this is going to go on." would require such elaboration to properly understand.

As for the information about us and our goals you requested: There are a variety of motivations among us, but the key one is entertainment. Specifically, deriving entertainment by ensuring the continued survival and well-being of the current group of Dreamers: Lucas, Garreth, Lexii, Emily, Lucia, Alice, Derrick, and associates. Another subgoal of immediate note is playing matchmaker and seeing certain relationships come to fruition, but that's far less important.

[seconding]

>UE: In the instance you mentioned of us 'being defensive', we were asking for further elaboration, as well as stating that our answer to your previous request: "In return I ask that You help me understand how far this is going to go on." would require such elaboration to properly understand.

As for the information about us and our goals you requested: There are a variety of motivations among us, but the key one is entertainment. Specifically, deriving entertainment by ensuring the continued survival and well-being of the current group of Dreamers: Lucas, Garreth, Lexii, Emily, Lucia, Alice, Derrick, and associates. Another subgoal of immediate note is playing matchmaker and seeing certain relationships come to fruition, but that's far less important.

[seconding]

[Thirding.]

=>

Show Content

Show Chatlog
???: ....
???: I see that You have chosen to continue our conversation, Thank you Ancient ones.
???: Before I filtered your influence as it seemed very contrived and suspicious. But now I suspect that your voice has changed drastically enough to properly consider each one.
???: I will make this device in order to sift through them. It will be called AO, Your initials.

Show Content

Show Chatlog
AO: I apologize in advance on behalf of a very small, but vocal minority among us. Some of them appear to be moderately defensive regarding you on account of perceived attacks by you on their entertainment medium. I suspect it's a case of innate paranoia and a distrust of those outside of current informational awareness. They will settle down once they get used to talking to you. Their paranoia and is not rational, and as such, although I do not normally, will speak to avoid a botching of this social encounter. I consider it viable to establish a working relationship. I suspect that the others will realize such once they observe positive interactions. Do not pay excessive heed to the voices of the excessively paranoid, they do not speak for the majority. Considering we can speak to you, this means you are a viable source of interesting things.
???: ....
???: On the contrary. I will pay especially close attention to those who may appear paranoid to further understand Your own complexity. I see that you exist in a multitude. Some kind of hive minded God, or a council of sorts. But you seem fallible like any other... Is this existence truly flawed to the point of having no perfect entity?  And entertainment medium... Are the events here simply a game of chance to bend and weave like child's toy?
???: I see that I should be have been so worried as to your involvement as much as I thought.
AO: Regardless. To answer your question. Our present priority goal, as we have been instructed, is to keep all Dreamers in this session alive and unpossessed until whatever constitutes the 'end state.' Secondary and tertiary goals are variable depending on the individual in question. My secondary would be 'observe interesting sequences of events and interactions.' Hence why I don't normally commune and instead watch.
???: ......
???: Keep all the dreamers alive in this session? Do You mean this universe?
???: Or rather this iteration of reality.... Ahh, please ignore my rhetorical questioning.
???: I simply am trying to derive meaning on my own.
AO: In the instance you mentioned of us 'being defensive', we were asking for further elaboration, as well as stating that our answer to your previous request: "In return I ask that You help me understand how far this is going to go on." would require such elaboration to properly understand.
???: Oh that's fine.
???: I pushed You a bit to illicit a response. I feel our encounter precious.
AO: As for the information about us and our goals you requested: There are a variety of motivations among us, but the key one is entertainment. Specifically, deriving entertainment by ensuring the continued survival and well-being of the current group of Dreamers: Lucas, Garreth, Lexii, Emily, Lucia, Alice, Derrick, and associates. Another subgoal of immediate note is playing matchmaker and seeing certain relationships come to fruition, but that's far less important.
???: Ahh I understand now... That's a bit depressing...
???: Seeing your involvement in my escape as such a meaningless and trivial cause has me a bit... Taken aback.
AO: We just witnessed you try to manipulate Lucia in killing one of her friends so you can posses them. You also just inadvertently admitted you care about nothing and nobody except this pet project of yours, so you'll forgive us for not trusting your words. How many times have you stolen some young child's life only to return here and do it all again? A wise man once said that the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. We should endeavor to be courteous towards each other however,  so to that end I personally have no trouble being referred to as an "ancient one" regardless of how true your assertion that you already know of us might be. However, it would also be polite on your part to introduce yourself with a name.
???: ......
???: You all really don't see what's going on yet?
???: ... My curse truly is my cross to bear alone. My rank as a God has a double edged sword of understanding.
???: ... What I understand to be truth, would utterly destroy these children. I am now 100% sure that you know of which I speak. You all know this, and still see this all as a game... How cruel.
???: You are called "Ancient ones" by the Elders because You're older than time itself. Not even A God like myself can understand Your beginning or end. You are somehow above God status. This made it quite clear to all of us, especially me. That whatever time exists, in any form we could understand, you all were exempt.
???: And as for me? My name is...

==>

==>

==>
[my vote goes towards silence, ue already hinted towards having an identity, he's gonna get real suspicious when that speaker begins spouting our suggested names as ue was about to tell us whatever probably fake name it has for us]

>UE: We have been wondering what you would like to be called for some time now.

>UE: We have been wondering what you would like to be called for some time now.

I'm gunna suggest this comes after UE replies.
Also this command
>???: I ask that you don't hold our paranoia against us. When lies and deceit run rampant, facts and fictions blur together. facts need to be doubted to find truth. Also if you're curious about what caused the changes within us, we can't tell you. Don't hold that against us either.

>For the sake of clarity, to call us "ancients" because we exist before your time would be no different from saying "because f(x)=x+1 will always have higher numbers than f(x) it can therefore be considered to be after." this is a fallacious statement because both timelines are infinite and therefore are simultaneously before and after each other, even if ours just so happened to beget yours. the nature of beings from two different universes doesn't imply we are in any way gods or flawless. it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

>UE: We have been wondering what you would like to be called for some time now.

I'm gunna suggest this comes after UE replies.
Also this command
>???: I ask that you don't hold our paranoia against us. When lies and deceit run rampant, facts and fictions blur together. facts need to be doubted to find truth. Also if you're curious about what caused the changes within us, we can't tell you. Don't hold that against us either.

[We're presently having a naming prompt. Amob is saying this cause we suspect this naming prompt is some sort of trap, but we don't want to just keep silent either. And what are the 'changes within us' that you're talking about?]

>For the sake of clarity, to call us "ancients" because we exist before your time would be no different from saying "because f(x)=x+1 will always have higher numbers than f(x) it can therefore be considered to be after." this is a fallacious statement because both timelines are infinite and therefore are simultaneously before and after each other, even if ours just so happened to beget yours. the nature of beings from two different universes doesn't imply we are in any way gods or flawless. it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

[You're really saying a lot of nothing here. Are you trying to accomplish something with this? Cause UE is powerful and dangerous and we probably shouldn't fool around with it.]

>For the sake of clarity, to call us "ancients" because we exist before your time would be no different from saying "because f(x)=x+1 will always have higher numbers than f(x) it can therefore be considered to be after." this is a fallacious statement because both timelines are infinite and therefore are simultaneously before and after each other, even if ours just so happened to beget yours. the nature of beings from two different universes doesn't imply we are in any way gods or flawless. it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Seconding this.

(The math checks out AND it's a nice bit of philosophical fodder :)

>For the sake of clarity, to call us "ancients" because we exist before your time would be no different from saying "because f(x)=x+1 will always have higher numbers than f(x) it can therefore be considered to be after." this is a fallacious statement because both timelines are infinite and therefore are simultaneously before and after each other, even if ours just so happened to beget yours. the nature of beings from two different universes doesn't imply we are in any way gods or flawless. it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Seconding this.

(The math checks out AND it's a nice bit of philosophical fodder :)

[I really don't see what's good about this command. For one, I don't believe that the logic used to challenge the name of ancient ones is logically sound. Us existing in a different universe is irrelevant because we have been around in this universe since around the start of time, to guide the 'elders' UE talks about. Since we were around in ancient times, calling us ancient ones is not unjustified. If something was around before the wheel was invented, and just jumped forward in time, the thing would still be prehystoric.
[UE might be mistaken in thinking we're the same entity that guided the elders, but there is no need for us to try and correct it on that. If UE thinks we're more experienced than we are, we should let it do that. You might point out the posibility of us going back in time, but we have nothing to support that and if it were an option for us we wouldn't want to inform UE of it.]
More importantly, even if UE was completely in the wrong in labeling us 'ancient ones', there is no benefit in it for us to go into a semantics argument to correct it. UE could refer to us as Clarence and it would make no difference.
[Heck, this whole elders and existing before time bit may be a trap laid for us by UE, just to see if we'll go along with stuff it's bullshitting.]]

[Fellow, go ahead and put every bit of your post in brackets, please. Otherwise they are candidates and can be 'heard'.]

[Fellow, go ahead and put every bit of your post in brackets, please. Otherwise they are candidates and can be 'heard'.]

[All right. I figured I'd non-bracket it just to give an indication that the sorta odd command is not consensus, but that is probably more trouble than it's worth.]

=>

Show Content

Show Chatlog
???: ... Daniel.
???: Daniel Everdyne. But my true name is Ennoukh.
Ennoukh: Now that the mystique is wiped away I suppose You can stop using the "Unknown Entity" as my handle.
AO: We have been wondering what you would like to be called for some time now.
Ennoukh: I prefer anything else, actually. Not because I dislike my given names, but because I enjoyed how one does not know the truth, but feels they do. I like to pretend.
AO: I ask that you don't hold our paranoia against us. When lies and deceit run rampant, facts and fictions blur together. facts need to be doubted to find truth. Also if you're curious about what caused the changes within us, we can't tell you. Don't hold that against us either.
Ennoukh: .... Hehe.
Ennoukh: Let me elaborate on how I use the illusion trait. It's not so much a "power" like the other children have displayed.
Ennoukh: Alice Wilford seems to be adopting my technique as well. Tell me, why do you think I take her form?
Ennoukh: Perhaps I lied to you, and I'm really Alice Wilford from outside this universe. Maybe I took this form to do bad deeds and sour her character? Or perhaps I took this form for... No reason other than the fact that I believe imitation is the highest form of flattery and I simply admire her tenacity and determination as a fellow illusion dreamer?
Ennoukh: You can decide on which it may be, even if I tell you... You will always wonder or doubt simply because You know that my trait is illusions.
Ennoukh: It's a passive effect that simply brings itself into existence. Quite a wonder is it not? You have every right to be paranoid.
AO: For the sake of clarity, to call us "ancients" because we exist before your time would be no different from saying "because f(x)=x+1 will always have higher numbers than f(x) it can therefore be considered to be after." this is a fallacious statement because both timelines are infinite and therefore are simultaneously before and after each other, even if ours just so happened to beget yours. the nature of beings from two different universes doesn't imply we are in any way gods or flawless. it would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
Ennoukh: Forgive my outdated line of thought! How rude of me to assume You had many years of life simply because the elders knew You exist.
Ennoukh: So I am to believe You're children driving this madness?
Ennoukh: I mean, if You're caught up on terms, I suspect priorities to be quite low. You should not have assumed Your title as the formless voice from the aether to be "ancient" in years of life, but in timespan of existence in my universe.
Ennoukh: I've already judged you as being young by the tone you take when you speak as well as the indecisiveness in whether to take me as a friend, associate or enemy. This only confirms this.
Ennoukh: My guess is you all have no idea who came before you and likely never will.
Ennoukh: But since you're here now I guess it's my turn to receive the great wisdom of the "ancients"! Hehehe...
Ennoukh: You say your stake in this is to see these children live long and healthy lives?
Ennoukh: I will step aside.
Ennoukh: In return, we will have some sort of... Understanding.
Ennoukh: That is, you work with them to leave me alone. I told you before, I know things....
Ennoukh: The end is clear and I do not like it.
Ennoukh: Knowing all this... what say you?

1. Help Ennoukh
2. Deny help

[ this is probably the hardest choice we've come up to, and it's a lose / lose scenario, let's say we decline to help him,  ue will have reasons to consider us it's enemy, and it has two kids at its mercy, i dont see why it wouldn't immediately gut lucia and alice (or perhaps just lucia) the moment we refuse allying with it, now, let's say we ally with ue, that throws the whole story into jeopardy, the whole point of ls is to open the arena to defeat the ue, ue is the bbeg of ls, plus, it can very well betray us whenever it wishes to
my thinking is, for the moment, we help ennoukh, it'll buy us time, at least, right now we're in a hostage situation, and the captor has two hostages with a gun aimed at their head, and they're asking for a rescue price, this is what we get for making enough bad choices in a row, we basically fucked up royally, let's hope we're given the chance to unfuckup things, not knowing what our choices will bring about makes us basically blind whenever we make a choice]

>if working together ensures the safety of the children then so be it, though, we have more questions for you, if you don't mind