Nostalgfia - GAME OVER SCUM WIN

honestly I’m...ok with pala not saying an item name for now?
also I’m not commenting on what reyweld said about my role cuz I don’t make a habit of responding to what people who I think are scum say about my role
or to put it another way, regardless of whether what reyweld says is true, I don’t have any vig shots to own up to or anything like that

speaking of reyweld after meditating on it while serving concessions to poolgoers, I REALLY have to question some of those rolecop choices
can you explain each of them? in particular, why you didn’t check the guy who claimed alternating-day jester? or the person who made a very shady scientist claim? or robust laser or pharmacy, last night?

oh lol I posted that without seeing pharms’ results
guess I don’t have to be cagey about not being a vig (I am not a vig)

pharmacy do you have strong reason to believe that there are 2 busdrivers or is this just theory?

more thoughts after dinner, reyweld’s choices don’t make a lot of sense for town, make less for mafia, could be hiding the real results but knowing pharms switched me and schaz would be difficult unless they’re BOTH scum (or scum has a tracker, but)

okay going to sleep in a moment but if that was Pharms' n1 switch then what the heck happened to my blocking Palamedes night one

asking for clarification in quicktopic but unless roleblocker blocks also don't notify the target they were blocked even if they are doing their action (apart from being able to infer it from an absence of results for say, investigative roles) I have no idea what happened there then

ofc it might be the case that roleblocker blocks are never told to the target explicitly, in which case maybe I just got blocked by Coldblooded or SinkingSailor N1

I didn't have any items to use or give away during N1 or throughout D2 so the item-blocking part of a roleblocker blocking me couldn't tip me off to whether that was the case or not

I SHOULD PROBABLY SLEEP NOW

and oh yeah good point Seedy guess Reyweld saw Schaz's vig role twice.

honestly not to parrot seedy, I do have to wonder why you didn't snoop on me, considering I was pretty susfishicious to u, reyweld. maybe bc I was lurking too much lmao.

honestly seedy, it's not like definitive but it's like "uuughhhhgh why do I have so many items? how did a52 saw me and a bunch of others loitering near a doghouse??? am confuse" but I guess it might be bc me and wheat were popular targets during those nights.

I kinda find it dubious there would be 2 busdrivers in retrospect because that would be too fucky/messy for a nostalgia setup. but on the other hand it would be pretty cool if I had a scum/3rd party busdriver rival. very anime. if I had to do a guess, it's probably reyweld bc the rolecop could be a good smokescreen for busdriver.

oh yeah unvote pending QT results bc if I just got blocked n1 the worlds where Pala is scum are I think a lot less likely than the ones where he’s town, our (on both sides) boneheaded feud aside

If there is a scum driver or redirector and they function like you do Pharms then it’s probably Akumu - Palamedes and Nercania both were seen visiting people, unlike you. Awkwardcarapace showing up in a52’s night two results suggest that that may well be the case, bc they claimed not visiting a52 or CSJ but ended up in a52’s results

With probably three scum left:

Town
Reyweld
Schazer - The mason counterpart to Solaris, who is confirmed with no counterclaim. Mixmasons is unlikely as Schazer admitted to shooting Solaris, which would be a huge loss for a scum team (who could have direct manipulation over a doctor) and would be stupid to admit when claiming vigilante. So Solaris died N2, which nullifies that point. I think my belief that they’re still definitely town comes down to my belief that mixmasons pairing the only (as far as we know) doctor with someone who could kill them at their earliest convenience and/or manipulate them into protecting the wrong people or other scum would be busted. Schazer’s actions have been very town oriented, and mechanically I have no reason to doubt them.
Palamedes - I can’t see Scum!Pala. Coldblooded had no suspicion on them when Palamedes sprung that oneshot cop item (here), and Coldblooded was also the scum roleblocker, which would be essential in a game with all power roles.

2 Scum in here:
Wheat: Semi-absent due to trip, but provides a lot of opinions without their reasoning behind them. Or maybe I just can’t understand what they’re trying to express when they quote two posts and leave them there. Scum!Wheat would leave me very confused, as I am very sure they are a mailman and I don’t understand how swirling around items chaotically as they have could help scum team. Also, someone said a52 was the same alignment as Wheat when taking redirects into effect, so Wheat’s likely in the clear.
Seedy: Scum!Seedy would be a huge problem for town. They claimed Miller day one, which is a sound play for both a real miller and a skilled scum. However, Seedy was right on top of CSJ, and has been providing using dialogue and lots of opinions. Town!Seedy is far more likely at this point, unless Scum!Robust Laser is a thing (which would make their interaction a way to distance themself from Robust Laser if they are doing the crazy gambit I describe below).
Nercania-orccelga: A vaguely unpleasant lurker that hasn’t done much of anything. They claimed to have a role that gives them no influence over their target, which is an easy hide for a scum. Scum!N-o would make sense, but Town!n-o who is frustrated/confused with game state and lurks could also be. I really don’t have much to go off of. Their most recent post almost makes me think they’re a Jester who is just done with the game.
Akumu: Akumu is yet another lurker who posts ~2 times a Day before disappearing. Certainly, their posts offer more to me than n-o’s, but it doesn’t help that someone who clearly has a lot of thoughts about the game is content to offer minimal amounts. A Scum!Akumu would be coasting on the current Robust Laser investigation, feeling no need to involve themself. A Town!Akumu could just be disinterested in the game, which is a vibe I’m getting from many of the less frequent posters. It’s a bit disheartening.
Sunspider: Unlikely to be scum as there’s already a petty thief scum (although there are already many pairs of roles). Also very absent due to trip. When they were here, she gave a positive feeling. But with no new information, I’m not sure what to think.

1 Scum in here:
Mirdini: The suspicion was on Pharmacy, so a Scum!Mirdini wouldn’t have gone wild with the posting and spend 4 hours digging through this game. I don’t agree with their Wine post on Palamedes, but it was very attention-grabbing which is something a scum member typically doesn’t want to do when a potential mislynch is already cued. Scum!Mirdini throwing shade at Palamedes and Sunspider isn’t a very sound move either, as Palamedes is generally accepted as town and Sunspider makes for an easy target when not here. I view Mirdini as a high-skill player, and wouldn’t understand these plays for a Scum!Mirdini. I still think Mirdini is the least likely scum of these three.

Pharmacy: They are being cagey. A Scum!Pharmacy who is too nervous to take action is possible. A Town!Pharmacy who is too nervous to take action is also possible. I’m honestly so exhausted right now with the fact that half of the players aren’t very present. It’s frustrating to me that Pharmacy rolled over when I pressured them, and more frustrating that they were (or claim to be) the busdriver and could have just said that to remove the possibility that one of Town!Robust Laser’s targets was just redirected with a scum member and progress the discussion. A scum!Pharmacy bringing up the possibility of multiple busdrivers might have been a way to cover themselves later if I (or another rolecop) had investigated them and found them to be a busdriver, but a town!Pharmacy might have done the same thing to softclaim a busdriver while giving the information that they didn’t target anyone of the group. I used to think they were the most suspicious because they weren’t offering anything D3, and I want to keep thinking that, but honestly Pharmacy doesn’t seem like a player who has a team chat helping them.

Robust Laser: A Scum!Robust Laser’s plays pan out as a huge, game-winning gamble. His N1 and N2 results are both muddied by including Seedy in them, and N4+ he is exempt due to a claimed Bomb that roleblocks him forever. This makes Scum!RL able to dodge providing Town with info while having a claim on the table. Their role could be completely different, even, as the scum team would know that all other players are unaligned. If Scum!RL is real, his D3 investigation with myself, Mirdini, and Pharmacy would be a great way to get 2-3 mislynches. By the time we got to Robust Laser, town would already have lost 4+ people and with 2-3 scum remaining in 7 people it would basically be mislynch and lose. If scum!RL was true, I’d guess their scum buddies to be Seedy and one of n-o/akumu/Sunspider. I used to think the possibility of this gambit was so slim it was to the point of ridiculousness, but I don’t know what to think. A Town!RL would be so invaluable with their OP 4 person investigation if there was another doctor or someone had a one-use Doc item to cure the bomb.

Vote: Robust Laser

@Seedy: I didn’t choose my N1 or N2 rolecops, because at the time I was AgentBlue. However, I still wouldn’t have investigated CSJ because it was clearly a waste of time, his behaviour D2 and D3 were extremely suspicious and it was obvious he was going to be lynched and town would get his flip. N3 I picked you because I didn’t trust you as much as I should for such an active player and wanted to see what else you were packing. N4 I picked Sunspider to learn more about someone who is often brought up in a negative light without commitment and isn’t really present (although I almost picked n-o, who people also throw shade at all the time). Both of them are possible scum or scum mislynches, making them good choices to learn about.

I didn’t pick Robottobt because I didn’t think it would be worth claiming to verify that they were scum, and I didn’t pick Robust Laser because I didn’t seriously doubt them until now. I have no reason why I didn’t pick Pharmacy.

People keep posting new things and I am feeling just so overwhelmed. I spent hours trying to wrap my head around what’s going on and I can’t. I truly, honestly hope I die so town can take what I say seriously and I don’t have to deal with the sheer amount of information floating around. I feel like I’ve wasted my whole day.

Votals:

Nercania: (2) (Wheat, Robust Laser)
Mirdini: (1) (Palamedes)
Palamedes: (1) (Schazer)
Robust Laser: (1) (Reyweld)

Abstaining: (6) (Akumu, Sunspider, nercania-orccelga, seedy, pharmacy, mirdini)

6 to Hard Lynch, 3 to Soft Lynch, deadline is 10:30 PM CST, July 10th

thank you for the post reyweld. I don’t actually think investigating CSJ would have been a GOOD idea, but it felt like an obvious choice so I was interested in why you didn’t. I’m sorry the game is tiring you out right now, I agree that all the reveals and night nonsense has been a lot to take in. however the fact that you are voting for the person who has an inforole that suggests you’re scum isn’t a great look. and complaining about the lack of balance in RL’s role in the way you are has very “annoyed scum” vibes

mafia ultra wine edition: pharmacy is scum busdriver and is lying about some nights

anyways I think remaining scum are sunspider/(pharmacy or Reyweld)/akumu...in a wacky world it might be mirdini/Sunspider/??? but that is Much Less Likely.

I’m closer to thinking Sunspider is scum, but I’d kind of like to do it when she can post (or when someone else has replaced in...)
so vote: Akumu I’ll try to compile some more in-depth arguments later but a lot of it’s “is off”

Okay so first off sorry for missing out on a bunch of stuff, work is super fun when it goes on forever ;-;.

Anyways, Mirdini I specifically remember you going on a few times about how believable CSJ's claim was - yeah you never really made a hard push away but it was definitely notable how willing you were to give him the benefit of the doubt to go after Robo or n-o. Also confused about how you are confirmed town, unless you mean someone else?

As for getting Coldblooded lynched instead of CSJ, sure I did that, but Wheat covered that pretty well vis-a-vis how it would have made no sense to do that. I'd also add that I don't think a single person was looking at her in any remotely serious way, and in fact was getting less attention than many other low posters. The idea that Coldblooded would have easily been lynched by now and CSJ wasn't going to be dead the immediate next day is ridiculous.

I'll concede I messed up on there being two confirmed town inventors (which makes sense in an item oriented game) but we have far from there being two confirmed town or scum anything past that.

It's also pretty crazy that Mirdini argues that the reasoning for my vote is ridiculous when his seems to equate to:

1. Me not revealing the name of my cop item for a reason that successfully eludes him, especially given how I almost straight up answered him yesterday (by accident but still feels pretty obvious looking back).

2. Coldblooded WINE

Schazer why did you shoot Solaris N1, when your bullets weren't stolen? Also why would you risk getting bullets in the night and killing people who shouldn't be killed? Why not announce your shit immediately if you felt it was just useless obfuscation so that you wouldn't potentially get caught visiting someone and cause aforementioned issues? As for your question, I haven't read too much exasperation from Dini? No more than any other active person at all.

Rolecops abound makes me actually feel better about anti-aligned roles as opposed to matching based on alignment, though that's assuming Reyweld can be believed (not sure why he'd take the risk with so many living players if he wasn't one but that doesn't mean much for alignment).

Mirdini assuming that I'm wrong and you're actually town, is it actually so impossible that Schazer is scum? You say that Wheat is the closest thing to verifiable town but you make more arguments based around Schazer having to be town than much else. Like, Schazer could be town but the world makes more sense and is significantly more straightforward in the opposite world as far as I'm seeing, for reasons both I and Wheat have elaborated on before and during this debacle.

Oh hey note, Mirdini is going on about his roleblocking being confirmed him but we had a confirmed town roleblocker alive at the time with no other claim of blocking so it'd be easy to hop on that and take responsibility days later.

Reyweld actually brings up a good point re: doc control but that almost makes me wonder if Schazer is a third party mason/killer? Doesn't make sense in a scum Mirdini world but works if he's town.

Thoughts on the Laser groupcopping is probably Pharms as most likely town but makes a lot more sense as scum if Mirdini or Laser are town. Reyweld is sort of in the middle, also not fitting with both Mirdini and Laser but could potentially work with them individually.

seedy I don't believe scum is entirely in the inactives and unless scum has two busdrivers plus some other incredible thing I don't see how everyone else can be telling the truth just in sheer terms of balance.

Will concede that I want to hear from the less active people (especially as it comes to results from claimed roles) which coincides with the fact that I'm not done properly going over these past few pages and am about to pass out and start it all again tomorrow. Please let me know if there's any major shit I'm missing still or need to weigh in on and I'll try and finish all of my thoughts up tomorrow.

No we didn't have a confirmed town roleblocker alive night two! Night two is when Seedy was blocked! Sailor died night 1!

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm going hiking but will be back after

Pala: schazer had good reasons not to claim, mainly that they still had the gun and didn’t want mafia to steal that in the potential situation that they also had the ammo. also if you believe Reyweld’s claims, they have checked schazer twice and gotten “vig” both times. and schazer I believe was confirmed to have actually possessed ammo n1? I could see mafia getting a useless gun at the start of the game (in a game like this) that they have to work to make useful...but getting gun AND ammo? also, do you think Reyweld is lying or do you think robotnerd is enough of a bastard mod to make a “scum vig” (although I think it’s odd that some roles’ powers are “stealable” apparently)

I don’t think Schazer has been playing super town and I get that the evidence is more complex than a straight clearing but...as far as occam’s razor goes I think schazer town and n1 kill hitting the doc was luck holds up better than...the various things necessary for schazer to be scum at this point

also yeah I was blocked n2 like mirdini said, part of the reason I brought it up was BECAUSE 2 roleblockers had already died

also I don’t “like” saying scum is in the less active/experienced players (although I don’t think it’s fair to call them inactive) but it...can end up like that through rng and it’s what appears to me to be true at the moment vOv
(plus if I’m right then one of the scum is one of pharmacy or reyweld, which means they AREN’T telling the truth, or at least not the whole truth)

pharmacy did you ever post reasons for your bus choices I forget and I’m on mobile

I have to shoot the gun.
I do not have to load ammo in the gun.
N1, I targeted Solaris without putting ammo in the gun.
My gun and ammo were stolen n1. My action did not go through, the gun *magically* returned to me.
I have since been randomly targeting people on the offchance i idk, catch someone in a lie when they do a watcher claim????

Being secretly handed ammo in the night does not make my Gun-targeting deadly.

Are you sure about that? The message I got was that it's finished exploding and not in my inventory any more, not that it's stopped roleblocking me. I think it can be interpreted as no longer affecting you, but I don't think that's what it means unless you got an entirely different message than me about it.

wheat why would item crafter scumdini claim roleblocker, we’ve had townies of both roles flip so there’s no...reason for him to make a lie that he can be caught in? with no clear benefits from the obfuscation why do something that only contemplates things for him down the line

also my bad I guess it’s not confirmed schazer had/has a gun
still, there’s the rolecop stuff to consider

otoh I guess he did claim bombed so you could say “oh this gives an excuse as to why the roleblock stream dried up while letting him continue crafting in secret” but...he could do that by just claiming bombed item crafter too
it would be a little more suspect when bad items kept showing up, but being able to be caught in a lie is an even worse position

but there’s...a bunch considering the number of nights we’ve had. unless you think he can craft multiple items every night, AND that he also has a roleblock item that is multiple-use that he uses to set up this convoluted fakeclaim?
if I got roleblocked by an item it didn’t show in my inventory so it must have been from the other end

and why make these things and give them repeatedly to you (you’re not THAT useful) and why not just make more poison (blocking RL makes sense, but you?)

it just...we don’t know what item crafters are allowed to do or what their scope is and I haven’t worked it all out mechanically, but it feels like you’re insisting mirdini is capable of a LOT (and yet chooses to only use this power for maximum roleblocking?)

Chiming in with Laser here that

narf

*dog reads what was said in their own quicktopic again about the bomb "going off" and now not being roleblocked by it anymore*

you mean "bomb has finished exploding and is no longer in your inventory"?

because that's what I got, and that does not say you're no longer roleblocked :/

but sure, guess we might end up seeing who's right here, whatever. In any case:

All the roleblock items we've seen so far roleblock by (and all the ITEMS we've seen so far ACT BY) ending up in the target's inventory.

Unless you think Seedy is scum and lying about her roleblocking circumstances, me being a ~mysterious obsessed with stopping the mailman item crafter~ *does not line up with Seedy's being blocked n2* (where she did not receive any such item, and both the other roleblocking roles that have flipped *were dead*).

Also re: scum!Reyweld I'd like to point again to CSJ saying super-knowingly this about Schaz

He isn't just a mason btw. If he wants to keep that bit private, that's cool.

the day (Day 3) right after Reyweld's claimed investigation of Schaz. Is it possible that he's saying that because CSJ was mafia who loved to gloat and for some reason felt like exposing his scum teammate some (maybe to make it seem they weren't coaligned)? Yeah, sure. Do I think it's likelier than CSJ feeling like he could gloat about info he had because of his ~mysterious persona~ (see: his obsession with talking about item thieving, as the thief)? No.

Re: Wheat wondering why I feel town on Schaz after their claim - Schaz made the mechanics of their gun-stuff pretty clear, so yes, them fullclaiming to have *fake* shot me felt townish to me, as has their subsequent play!

Re: Item crafting as well, if (as we have seen so far, at least) the scum and town roles only differ in their alignments, we have awkwardCarapace's account of how his item crafting worked to go on, which was 'selects a number of people, and hands out items to them at random'. Which is hardly a scum role.

Honestly if anyone is a scum bomb-pal I'd guess it's maybe Nercania-Orccelga, who said he can't control his targets ages ago so I could see some sort of scum role that constantly drops Garbage Items (poison, bombs, turkish delights/toffees) on the town but can't control which townies get them.

I'll concede I messed up on there being two confirmed town inventors (which makes sense in an item oriented game) but we have far from there being two confirmed town or scum anything past that.

20. Cat Town Mailman[/color]

Wheat has also claimed Mailman (albeit Lousy Mailman).

and I know that I'm a town RB and that SinkingSailor was one so sorry but there is definitely some sort of setup shenanigans going on. Not that I think *every* role in this game is paired (/tripleted) up with an identical one, but it certainly seems like it is a sub-theme.

Pharmacy has claimed driver, but that also still doesn't explain how awkwardCarapace ended up in the CSJ-a52 Night 2 Mess because by his own words he was not targeting either of them (and Pharms was bussing CSJ and a52). Which makes me think we have another redirection role also still running around.

If you don't trust me but trust me enough to keep me alive one more day Wheat, please just do your item shuffle on me and someone else you trust so there's a good chance of them getting my Magical Gun. If can be stolen but returns to me at the end of the night so someone else can verify that that's an item I own and not something I struck lucky on and found in the database and am basing a fakeclaim around.

Alternatively someone gimme some ammo and I shoot a couple lurkers dead for yall :v

my hike was also very nice, and I think I have become somewhat more zen re: this game after mountain climbing. Seriously though, please, can we not lynch people based on gut feeling who're mechanically unlikely to be scum rather than actually looking at the flippin' game mechanics and what people have said.

Palamedes, re: your one-shot cop etc., I was working off active info I had and YEAH I KNOW NOW there's a pretty likely scenario where I don't need to worry about that and I think we're probably in that world now especially with what's happened over the past 24 hours but 24 hours ago I was not so sure about that so I was busy entering the ~WINE ZONE~ instead. While I'm annoyed that it's led to this much of a distraction re: the idea of me being scum, so it goes.

As for who I want to lynch today, I'd like to hear Akumu respond to Seedy's vote, I'd like to hear sunspider's thoughts if she can check in, and I'd also like to hear more from Nercania-Orccelga, maybe even up to a claim as to what role they 'can't control the targeting of' if other folks think that's a good idea. My ultimate lynch target is probably still in the Akumu/Reyweld/N-O/maybe pharms, maybe sunspider zone.

re: latest wheat post - seedy has confirmed she gave schaz an antidote, so, uh, idk why schaz not being poisoned anymore is some sort of scum tell

combinator is an actual item in the database (as named in-thread by Dini), I can confirm existence of a recipe book (received after N1 shenaniganry, lost N2 due to a Spring in my inventory)

The recipe I received from the recipe book when Used D1 told me a Toaster + Divine Essence creates Toast of Truth (all items which exist in the database)

Idk but Toast of Truth in the hands of a trusted town player sounds p dang useful?????? Like yes that could be scum fishing but the information that there's a bunch of items that have potential further use in the right hands is information that didn't need to be divulged?

Anyway it makes sense for Seedy to have not mentioned antidote-having considering. Shortly after a52+I claimed poisoning both the claimed antidote-owners (Cat and aC) turned up dead the next day? And Unless both Seedy and I are lying about this in some weird attempt to clear each other (not implausible, but certainly impossible from my pov) it's a lot simpler for both of our limited sets of information (Seedy's antidote-give, my antidote-receipt) to make a cohesive story.

One mechanical issue I've not yet teased out is the fact I received a pog++ last night and Seedy already said they didn't send it my way. Which means I was the target of some other night action and nobody's fessed up to it.

I've been monitoring Pog++ counts and they do get shunted along when I fire a gun at someone regardless of whether i load the gun with ammo or nah (I am not told who I targeted (i.e. if I was the victim of misdirection), but also I have not been the target of roleblocking yet).

Also I fully checked out of this game the last couple days because a) Poison'd, b) I like a good puzzle and this one was effectively impossible to solve with a good third of the playerlist not fessing up to what chicanery they'd gotten up to.

Heya folks, and 'sup Dog. I am finally returned.
And I'm here to share a thing or two. A fact what I have learned.
We've got a Rotten Food Deliverer. A peddler of Poison.
A Food Bus full of Bad, to kill the Enbys, Girls, and Boys in.
If you've wondered 'bout the poison source, and pondered just what is it.
Or if you're sick, our Pharmacy is not the one to visit.

It's no lie, I am a Thief. Reyweld and 'dini got it right.
And I double as an Item Cop. The role is pretty tight.
Haven't stolen any things 'cause I've been staying low-key.
Until I found suspicious, unclaimed stuff in Pharm's inventory.

I'll try to leave more details in a non-rhyming addition,
But a Vote For Pharmacy would be my current proposition.

---

Thank you so much for the summary post, Mirdini. I didn't want to post/vote until I was reasonably caught up on the thread. Been struggling to catch up during down time, and that really helped.

Not 100% caught up, and I will post a full day-by-day roleclaim (Though the info is not likely to be super useful beyond RE: Pharms), but posting has been hard. Particularly tonight; it's been a busy night of roadtripping with some unexpected changes of plans and lack of places to sleep, and I'm still awake almost at sun-up. But I will be back ASAP with more stuff. I've been doing my best to keep playing, but I've been so behind on the day game. Working to fix that still.

Until then, in short, I can confirm that I am a town thief, and the way my role works allows me to see a full inventory (I think in the state it was before night actions resolve, based on what people have claimed). I can elect to steal from them or not, and so far I haven't stolen from anyone; partially to avoid making people suspicious while I gathered data, and also because in most cases there was only junk, or sensitive items I didn't want to move.

I was roleblocked last night by a Turkish Delight that appeared in my inventory, along with what may be a poisoned orange. Prior to that, I got an item scan on Pharms, with an inventory of poison and food, plus a toilet paper tube. They didn't claim the poison and food, which makes me pretty sure they've been responsible for attempts to poison people, while hiding that. Also again, I have other reads, but they're not seemingly useful. I'll write it all up soon.

Back later. Sorry I can't post more. Flippin' exhausted, and battery is practically dead.