Frozen Hearts Mafia [Family Ties - Mafia/Survivor Victory]

unvote

Hey smash ball: Avoiding voting is avoiding commitments/leaving a clear record of your suspicions. As town your one guaranteed weapon is your vote, why ration it?

I don't buy 'but people won't think I'm voting seriously ;-;' - the only time when a vote isn't serious is in RVS at the start of the game, or if it's explicitly made out to be silly.

To phrase it better: if you're having trouble with people not taking your votes seriously you probably want to look at how well you support them rather than how many of them you're making. Yeah, if you vote two-thirds of the playerlist every day people won't take you seriously - but that's because you (weird, weird games excepted) can't possibly build a credible case for all those lynches, not because you're voting a lot.

(not that you necessarily have trouble with people not taking your votes seriously, my point being that's the excuse you gave for not wanting to vote until some nebulous point in the future; a policy I'm not a fan of due to the aforementioned 'scum don't like to leave concrete trails' deal)

We haven't had votals in a while. TehPilot, would you like to do the honors?

A lesson or two in recordkeeping

Mirdini (4) (icanhasdonut, Affle, Granolaman, Cat)
Granolaman (3) (Stiqqery, Schazer, speedchuck)
speedchuck (1) (Truegreen)
Garuru (1) (Druplesnubb
Mister Visceral (1) (Acionyx)
Palamedes (1) (OzTheWizard)
Druplesnubb (2) (Palamedes, Mister Visceral)
Mister Visceral (4) (Garuru, makerofthegames, Mirdini, SupahKiven)

Abstaining (2) (smash ball, Ginx-sama)

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch and 6 for softlynch
Deadline is June 20th, 10PM EST (~79 hours).

I'm conflicted, on one had, Pala made a good case against Druple (and it doesn't make them look co.-aligned.) On the other his defense of Vic (making assumptions about his intentions before he even said anything) is scumtastic.

I guess a good case (and a not-so-great reaction to it) is better, lynch Druple.

God I hate day 1. I honestly have no idea what's going on.

hmm

I'm going to vote....

Granola

Because a 3 way race is more interesting than a 2 way race and I want to see what happens.

I agree that Pala's defense of Vic is weird.(Maybe they're alligned???) But then there's this:

I wasn't about to put a whole bunch of effort into pushing the game along.

Which seems a little too blatant and now I'm kind of confused?

Speaking of Granola, is there any specific reason he has so many votes? Or is it all just votes from people who were RVSing and haven't revoted? (I think this applies to Mirdini too?)

On the other his defense of Vic (making assumptions about his intentions before he even said anything) is scumtastic.

Oh I'm sorry do you have another explination for it?

I'm all for not providing people with answers they might not have but I have a policy against people pretending things aren't obvious to build cases (especially early game).

(Hi Kiven feel free to respond to this as well.)

Granola has a bunch of rvs votes and then also Druple picking on him out of nowhere. Same with Mirdini.

It makes Truegreen look pretty bad too to be honest.

Before I get to Mirdini, it seems that people are saying Druple looks like scum and are agreeing with Pala, but they mainly ignore or make little reference to what Druple said in return. It just seems to me that people have their suspicions and votes, but aren't giving Druple anything to follow up on (and leaving me to guess on their reasons). If anything, give your reason even if you're restating or quoting what someone else said.

Switching over to Oz (because it relates to the subject)...

(Oz) I guess a good case (and a not-so-great reaction to it) is better, lynch Druple.

What about the reaction didn't you like? Was it how Druple called out Granolaman without voting? That Druple even called out Granolaman? That Druple didn't take his vote off of Garuru? His explanation for forgetting his vote? Was it how he threw down a vote to MV? Saying all of the above is an answer, I guess, but something should strike out more than the others.

Okay, on to Mirdini.

As town your one guaranteed weapon is your vote, why ration it?

I prefer 'ask first, shoot later' as opposed to 'shoot first, ask later'. It's simply how I play regardless of my faction.

I don't buy 'but people won't think I'm voting seriously ;-;' - the only time when a vote isn't serious is in RVS at the start of the game, or if it's explicitly made out to be silly.

In my mind, it's the same thing as if someone was constantly being sarcastic, so you can never figure out if they are being serious or not.

...but that's because you (weird, weird games excepted) can't possibly build a credible case for all those lynches, not because you're voting a lot.

Some people vote because of a couple minor things or reactions, correct? I don't do that. If I've got a gut feeling about a person, I'll ask that person about something or another. Also, we have ~75 hours. We better be sure to use the time wisely and not end it early. I understand that's not what is currently happening, but we have the time for questions (not that you can't vote and ask questions, but it's not my preferred method). And I'm going to damn well use that time for questions. In case you want a reference, for a previous large game (in which I was town) I voted somewhere after the 5 person mark. So, that's where in the 'nebulous point in the future' you can expect me to vote. Until then, questions away!

Finally on to Truegreen,

(truegreen) God I hate day 1. I honestly have no idea what's going on. ... Because a 3 way race is more interesting than a 2 way race and I want to see what happens.

So you have absolutely no thoughts on anything that just happened in the past two pages?

I'm all for not providing people with answers they might not have but I have a policy against people pretending things aren't obvious to build cases (especially early game).

(Hi Kiven feel free to respond to this as well.)

(Yes hello) I feel that the whole way he responded to your guess was kinda strange, like 'bluh okay, that works for me' and it seemed kind of off (but maybe that's just me seeing things, who knows).

Also, Truegreen. Truegreen. It looks like he voted Granola so that there would be a three way tie for the lynch. (0-0) Could we uh... get some opinions from you, Truegreen? Cause stuff has happened.

I agree that Pala's defense of Vic is weird.(Maybe they're alligned???)

Cackling so hard right now.

@Pala: how many times have you seen Vic play Town like that? I think it's first time I've seen him jump to wagons without stating his reasons. So I don't think it's obvious that he's baiting for reactions and not just trying to change things up (to avoid his usual early lynch?) Unless, of course, you're going to assume he's Town. Then yeah, it's obvious he's baiting. But then why would you?

@smash ball: that's quite a loaded question. I'm tempted to just say "all of the above" to show how futile asking like that is. (Also, if you're going to push that hard you might as well vote.) To actually answer: The inconsistency Pala pointed out was interesting, the "forgot his vote" explanation seems unlikely because he was supposed to be scumhunting by that point. Then I didn't like the Vic vote. His reasoning was sound (Vic is fluff posting and not explaining his votes) but prefacing that explanation with reasons for Vic to be Town ("his buddying doesn't seem scumy to me") rubbed me the wrong way. The Granola thing is only interesting if Druple flips Scum (my guess would be Granola!Town, since I get the feeling at that point Druple was looking for any Scummy!Town leads to take heat off of him.)

But then Granola is cackling. That's undeniable proof that he is, in fact, evil.

Also, Truegreen. Truegreen. It looks like he voted Granola so that there would be a three way tie for the lynch. (0-0) Could we uh... get some opinions from you, Truegreen? Cause stuff has happened.

Yes, things have happened. Though I am unsure how to analyse them.

Druple got a bunch of votes for some weirdness early on that I still can't pinpoint. The only reason he's on my radar at all is for his comments on No-votes. I believe he was against them, which is something I agree on. OH and the strange 'I'm not scum' post at the very beginning. Though for now I'm discounting it because the circumstances surrounding it make it a waste of time to analyse (read RVS).

Mirdini got a bunch of votes gradually. I was rather surprised at that actually. He is one of my top town reads. (Though I may have a bias because I think he's pretty cool).

Right now I'm voting Granola because I want to see what happens. Also the situation of 3 bandwagons in a low pressure area may be revealing, at least to those who have a bit more experience with this game.


I'd also like to say that day 1 for me is a lot of near useless babble. Sure you can make reads, gather information, get a sense of how others are playing. But without prior knowledge of playstyles it becomes little more than a shouting match. The data only really becomes useful on the second day. At least that is my current perspective. I'm sure this will change as I learn to get more accurate reads or what to look for.

Oz is still weird to me (esp for #206)
Druple is still weird to me and I'm still voting him. OMGUSes and overexplanations (both of which start with the letter Mafios-O)
Garuru checks out nicely with me. Seems to be actively playing the game. he's at least protown.

That's pretty much my feels right now. Still getting acclimated to using this forum. Don't know why it's so hard for me. Reading the posts is just different on this website for me. I'm sorry I'm weird like that ;-;

If you have any questions, please ask. It'll help me focus.

Going to have to take my vote back, things are looking especially fishy on two fronts and I can't decide.
Time to wait it out, and see what happens.

Unvote

@Oz: (text wall warning) I didn't really ask the question to grill you. The reason I asked the question was displayed in your answer. Specifically,

His reasoning was sound (Vic is fluff posting and not explaining his votes) but prefacing that explanation with reasons for Vic to be Town ("his buddying doesn't seem scumy to me") rubbed me the wrong way.

I didn't quite pick up on that like you did, but reading back I can see how that could be a factor. Personally, I don't think there's much wrong in stating how some actions a person makes are town-like, and others are scum-like. After all, scum is going to try their best to either be like town, or go unnoticed (of course, town also has to...be like town), so not everything scum does is going to be scumy. Like you said, he did follow up with reason(s) for Vic to be scum. However, for other people, I can see how the preface could be a factor (giving the sense Druple could be...wishy washy? Is that an appropriate term?). To clarify the reasons for the question, other people are going to pick up or see things differently than I will, so that's part of the reason why I ask the questions (to see other people's reasons and maybe find something I didn't fully look into myself). Other people (like myself) may not have picked up on it, so it's good for them too. The other reason for asking the question is to simply see exactly what reasons people have, and to focus on those reasons and discard minor ones.

Finally, the reasons between various people can give us a better understanding of what's going on (your reasons with MV's reasons carry more weight for me than if the reasons stand alone).

I have to ask, what's the exclamation points in the middle of a sentence (I don't know what it means)? Like here:

(my guess would be Granola!Town, since I get the feeling at that point Druple was looking for any Scummy!Town leads to take heat off of him.)

I've seen someone else do it too (or maybe it was you).

@Truegreen: So are we just supposed to derp off all day? Continue useless babble? We need to get reads and gather information or else D2 is going to be D1 all over again.

@MV: For Oz 206, I asked a question and he gave an answer. If you have a direct question on it, you might as well ask. Not going to do any harm by asking a question, and it'll spark some discussion.

Truegreen: So are we just supposed to derp off all day? Continue useless babble? We need to get reads and gather information or else D2 is going to be D1 all over again.

I was referring to how I see the day and my agency within it. Others who understand it better can probably get more out of day 1.

@Smash Ball: Is this your first mafia game?

@Druple/Smash Ball are you guys scumbuddies.

But seriously that defence was a thing. Oz also hits it on the head and oh my god it feels weird to agree with him.

Oz, I've seen Visceral go and act obviously scummy right from gamestart before, and he's certainly played enough with people who do that kind of thing that I could see him trying it even if he hadn't. Even if he is scum, obvious baiting to help get out of RVS is still not a real scummy thing to do and the people going after him and pretending it's not at least an option all seem like they're leaping at an opportunity for easy mislynches/townpoints.

Truegreen, I want you to read what I've said. I've laid out a case on Druple pretty clearly (hey people are agreeing with me on it which kind of points to that). What about it don't you get? Also I do not have a townread on Mirdini at this point so I'd like to hear more besides you excusing yourself by saying that it 'could be because he's cool'. Also also I want to hear thoughts from you on Smash Ball and Visceral.

I don't know where the usage initially popped up, but the ! is shorthand for hypothetical game state I guess? (as in, I am acting very Town!Nola, or Schazer's probably town in a Scum!Nola world.)

SpoilerShow

It's very confusing if you've had any logic or programming experience since in that world !scum means "not scum"

Actually I agree with Truegreen I wanna see a three-way battle at softlynch tween myself MV and Mirdini. Druple can sub in there if anyone feels uncomfortable with the idea.

Why do you want yourself, MV and Mirdini to be the lynch candidates?

Cuz we've already got the votes?

But isn't everyone on mirdini's wagon except you RVS voters who haven't joined the real discussion ye? I'd expect Donut and Cat to change their votes as soon as they post again? Speaking of which, Donut and Cat really should post again.