Tropefia - A PYP - N5: Downed Guy (11/24) (need replacement)

1: It's out protective roles, too many unbalnces the game and we've already hit that threshold.
2: Your claim if metaphorically not bulletproof (It's possible to shoot holes in your claim) It's not actually not bulletproof, as you did claim bulletproof.

Paranoia needs to talk, so do a ton of other people.

Also we needvotals I think I unvoted you at one point on fs but I'm too tired to be certain. vote myw again

youdont you are drunk go home

paranoia isn't in this game

MYW, 4 protective roles in a game is ridiculous and unbalanced, and Q is better at balance than that

also rational arguments my foot
saying "but I'm not THAT kind of bulletproof" is no

and as viata mentioned earlier, it's possible maf got roleblocked, too! there are a large number of ways for a kill to go missing and for you to be lying scum

except I will bet you're a lying 3p survivor with a bp instead

MrGuy- I'm trying to make sure everyone's at least pretty sure I'm town. It's a pretty good reason, and like I said I think I have a pretty solid external argument for it, so why not? I don't really think proclaiming my own innocence is any less productive than trying to put lurklaw in place.

I appreciate that, to some extent, but the sheer amount of words going into "here is why I am not scum" - especially ignoring WIFOM bullshit entirely - is kind of suspect.

If I'm scum bulletproof, then one of two things must have happened.
1) Scum killed nobody
or
2) Vigilante didn't do anything, Vampire is scum flavor killer and for some reason killed the second most voted for person from the previous day.

the first one is counter productive to scum goals, and the second is... just kinda nonsensical.

This seems a bit strange because you're claiming bulletproof and at the same time being all "scum wouldn't have killed nobody! That's COUNTERPRODUCTIVE," completely ignoring the possibility of a doctor, town roleblocker (as Red mentioned), some other town power role that's capable of stopping a kill some way or another, or various third-party bullshit. Not to mention that the scenario in which scum went for you but were blocked (which I guess is what you're implying happened?) to me just raises the question "if you were scum, wouldn't this whole charade be a great way to 'prove' innocence, since the scum 'obviously' targeted you?"

So, yes, bodyguard still a terrible scum claim. Shocking how it hasn't actually been counterclaimed, huh? Specially since it would be the easiest thing to test. Guess it's because I have the role. No, because the role is like stump and bodyguard, so myw thought it would be a good idea to gamble on it?

Why the fuck are you saying "why would scum be so stupid as to claim this," why would you ever do this, it just instinctively pushes me towards "reverse psychology scum" and then inevitable WIFOM

Also here's one I just realized weirds me out:

If I'm scum, and there's a town bulletproof, I woulda been called out already.

If I'm scum and there is no town bulletproof, then i'm just so incredibly ballsy that I'll declare myself a role when there are like 18 people left.

^ It would not make any sense for me to risk outing myself, due to the above pieces of information.

Admittedly this one might just be my lack of familiarity with mafia strategy, but... if somebody counterclaimed, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of being a bulletproof? It'd essentially be their word against yours, and the mafia wouldn't bother to shoot them, which means they wouldn't waste a nightkill.

Still would prefer not to vote until votals are ready but I am definitely inclined to deadline vote: myw

Other stuff: I have no idea what yd12k meant by that last post, still annoyed at lurkers, don't fully understand why Scoffles voted Kiven a while back (he said she was fishing, which I get to some extent sorta? but it seemed fairly innocuous to me)

So you bet myw is a lying third party and still push for her lynch (to the point of ignoring everything else)? Interesting. youdon't is still looking the worst out of this though (last post is great for that).

Hey does anyone think that a busdriver/bodyguard/bulletproof actually does sound possible? Because a stump isn't much of a protective role now that I think about it.

Incidentally Red Paranoia replaced konec0.

So you bet myw is a lying third party and still push for her lynch (to the point of ignoring everything else)? Interesting. youdon't is still looking the worst out of this though (last post is great for that).

Hey does anyone think that a busdriver/bodyguard/bulletproof actually does sound possible? Because a stump isn't much of a protective role now that I think about it.

Incidentally Red Paranoia replaced konec0.

what where when I saw no announcement

also no it's not "pushing MYW over consideration of anything else"

I'd be fine with a youdont lynch or a kiven lynch too

However the MYW lynch has just as much if not more evidence as both of those lynches

MYW could still easily be scum
I just personally think his scumbuddies would have told him to stop digging his own grave if he was scum

Like, I could push a Youdont or kiven lynch

but MYW needs to die too ssssso why not now because I really doubt that vampire is a vig

and considering how bad he's fucked up his "claim", if he isn't scum they won't bother shooting him :|

also MYW already said he was a guy pala

I'm not crazy about yd12k, but he's felt at least kind of productive today, and myw's whole thing is still vexing me.

Lurkerlynch would also be okay but honestly with the way discussion is going it doesn't feel like a top priority anymore?

MrGuy, since you're being reasonable enough to counterpoint me unlike Red who's either a vicious bandwagoner or a Scum pretending to be a vicious bandwagoner (someone else should probably meta argument that, I don't know from experience)
I'll debate you. Sorta.

I appreciate that, to some extent, but the sheer amount of words going into "here is why I am not scum" - especially ignoring WIFOM bullshit entirely - is kind of suspect.

Probably, but that's just me. I compiled all of my arguments into one post since I was annoyed that it seemed like people weren't reading anything.

This seems a bit strange because you're claiming bulletproof and at the same time being all "scum wouldn't have killed nobody! That's COUNTERPRODUCTIVE," completely ignoring the possibility of a doctor, town roleblocker (as Red mentioned), some other town power role that's capable of stopping a kill some way or another, or various third-party bullshit. Not to mention that the scenario in which scum went for you but were blocked (which I guess is what you're implying happened?) to me just raises the question "if you were scum, wouldn't this whole charade be a great way to 'prove' innocence, since the scum 'obviously' targeted you?"

I'm claiming bulletproof because I was shot and my role is now useless. I'm already last priority to get shot, so I might as well tell everyone what I know.
Sure, I didn't actually consider town roleblocker. Does that work against scum kills, though? I also didn't consider doctor.

However, if either of these two things were the case, shouldn't I have been called out on it by now?
Don't give me nonsense about how it's suicide for that town member to reveal himself. Any role trading 1 for 1 with a scum is worth the trade when scum should be badly outnumbered. (What is scum count in a 24 person game, 5-6?) Well, actually, maybe not if you're like, oracle or something, but I'd still say it was worth it.

Why the fuck are you saying "why would scum be so stupid as to claim this," why would you ever do this, it just instinctively pushes me towards "reverse psychology scum" and then inevitable WIFOM

This point would be valid if I didn't have other points backing me up, like the fact that no one else has actually contradicted me, role wise. It's one of them "your word against mine" arguments.

I'm saying "why would scum be so stupid as to claim this" argument because it doesn't. Make. Sense. At all.
I thought logic was like, I dunno, part of the process.
Dunno what WIFOM is.

Also here's one I just realized weirds me out:

If I'm scum, and there's a town bulletproof, I woulda been called out already.

If I'm scum and there is no town bulletproof, then i'm just so incredibly ballsy that I'll declare myself a role when there are like 18 people left.

^ It would not make any sense for me to risk outing myself, due to the above pieces of information.

Admittedly this one might just be my lack of familiarity with mafia strategy, but... if somebody counterclaimed, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of being a bulletproof? It'd essentially be their word against yours, and the mafia wouldn't bother to shoot them, which means they wouldn't waste a nightkill.

Nope. I mean, I'm unfamiliar with mafia around here, but I've played other things pretty frequently.
If someone counterclaimed bulletproof, town would know that either one of us was scum. This early in the game, that's a good trade. If I were the scum, after about one day/night's worth of testing, we'd have one person we knew was town, and a dead scum. That's worthwhile.

Forgot- Miridini, I don't think 4/24 protective roles is unbalanced. Specially since Stump and bulletproof are entirely selfish.

There's probably also a roleblocker and a busdriver or something, which when played properly also serve those functions (A good roleblocker can stallscum as effectively as a doc, a great busdriver can theoretically destroy scum on it's own)

Didn't the busdriver already die?

you do realize MYW, that every protective means that scum might waste a shot, and that's another day town has to be able to find and lynch them

4 protectives is a 1 in 6 chance of hitting a protective

and it only gets smaller with each towny that is not a protective dead

as a result, it's entirely possible at mylo for town to be entirely composed of protectives
in which case scum is pretty fucked???

EBWOP: Assuming a 4 to 5 man scumteam as seems to be the usual standard in games this size

Bodyguard and stump hardly count as protectors.

Bodyguard and stump hardly count as protectors.

one of them doesn't the other does
they are protectives even if they sacrifice themselves

also the doc can target the bodyguard and the bodyguard can target the doc

and suddenly scum can't kill either

why are you trying to argue solely based on you role instead of trying to find people who are scummier than you and actually hunting

trying to defend yourself based only on your role is only making it look more like a fakeclaim

one of them doesn't the other does
they are protectives even if they sacrifice themselves

also the doc can target the bodyguard and the bodyguard can target the doc

and suddenly scum can't kill either

why are you trying to argue solely based on you role instead of trying to find people who are scummier than you and actually hunting

trying to defend yourself based only on your role is only making it look more like a fakeclaim

The body guard never counts as an extra life, though
I don't think the Doc/bodyguard thing works like that, because the doctor and bodyguard visit the house?
Either way, that doesn't seem like something that would come up often

Defending myself now helps in that it provides information.
For example, if you accept me as bulletproof, then you know that the vampire is a vigilante, and you have one less person to wildly suspect

Also, why wouldn't I defend myself I claimed a role and then you're like "yeeeeah he must be lying" for no good reason it's annoying

trying to defend yourself based only on your role is only making it look more like a fakeclaim

I'm not defending myself based only on my role, I used a few other pieces of information
I really hope you're not going to make me restate my posts

Forgot- Miridini, I don't think 4/24 protective roles is unbalanced. Specially since Stump and bulletproof are entirely selfish.

how does 5/24 rank on your scale

I mean it'll still be 'not unbalanced' because you want your fakeclaim to work but yeah that is sort of a thing

(to everyone else: yes I am claiming protective)

I'm guessing that means Granolaman has some sort of protection now. Or that Granola is also protective. Anyway, can we have some votals up in here?

this whole waffling over myw's claim is going too far.

vote: myw. The way I see it, your obsession with your claim is not helping town at all, whether you're town or scum. I'm leaning scum on you, mainly because of balance issues. If myw flips town, I may want to look at the other claimed protective roles as well.

What's myw at anyways I'd kinda like to vote him but doublevote and such and I don't want to actually "push the button" per se because I don't like him right now but not enough to like finalize it but enough to think it's worth a vote and

My horribly unformatted tally is as follows:
yd12k 3 Palamedes, cali, myw
myw 5+1 Mirdini, red, yd12k, garuru, Granola (Mr Guy)
Felix 2 kiven, scoffles,
sjt 1 Gnauga
With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch and (5?)6 to softlynch

Will confirm that Dini's a man's man and keeps his household protected.
Will also confirm that Myw's being hyperdefensive even after he was given a chance to focus on something else, like the lurkers.
Vote: myw

well um

Vote: myw although I don't like having brought it so high and
urgh should

fuck it yeah okay i'm sticking with this

Yeah, myw seems liek the bigger threat right now, plus if she's scum, it means yd12k might be town, but if she's town, yd12k is almost definitely scum. So yeah, some info too. Unvote Vote: myw

Honestly I think speculation on roles in a closed game really doesn't get us anywhere

I think outing himself as a shot bp was a silly move because now scum knows what happened instead of wining themselves over it but I personally believe him?

Probably is too many protective roles claimed but I think its a silly way to look at it? Anything can happen in a game like this.

Still think a Kiven Lynch is the way to go but he hasn't even been back to explain himself while all these shenanigans have been going down

In fact I think a lot of people have been sitting in the background while myw takes center stage

(Scoffles you too)
(I know I know)

I'm not really sure what there is for me to explain? I was curious about the apple? I suppose I agree with the lynch, but I'm not sure I want to hammer. (going on the assumption that Granolaman's votals are correct)

Also I don't really have an excuse for being gone except for finals and lawn mowing.