-=- Crooks Hollow III Mafia -=- Day Five? (3/21)

I know that's what you say your motives were; we've talked about this before. I was just responding to Pala here about why I felt suspicious.

kane going 'my vote wasn't random' iiiis a thing too I will give that to seastorm. ~You seem to have much more on me though sea so why aren't you voting me instead~

As you can tell, this is a lot more ~feelings~ based than hard evidence. It makes you feel off, but I don't think a vote's really useful here, especially since you're likely to answer me and you're also likely to not get lynched until Day 15 even if you have a guilty on you.

While I still dislike the random/not random thing, it makes slightly more sense, although I do wish Kane had drawn attention to the fact that it wasn't random sooner (btw, it's one of the ways we actually get out of RVS -- "Not a random vote. Discuss.", especially as looking into that was the main reason we actually got out of RVS -- What I'm saying is that your argument sounds a lot like Dini's.)

Also Yew hi Yew.
Yew I've voted two people in this game and that was Pilot in RVS and Kane because 'vote is not random'. Then I said that I liked Tea's post.
Tea voted Pilot just before I switched my vote.
How are we co-aligned...? I feel like you might be just making another mistake but we've kind of been discussing this for (what feels like) a while?
Like, the post is just so flat-out wrong that I get the feeling that you might want to reread the thread, keeping in mind that Kane is 0_o.

Wait no, you obviously know who Kane is.
Actually Yew can you just tell me why you're voting him I'm really really confused by that.

Alright first off, I don't actually think Tea and Sea are scumbuddies or something, but maybe town people who are allowed to talk. They strike me as more town. However, after rereading I realized that if they were coaligned scum or something, they're acting way too obvious about it.

Big Kane posts I'm looking at are 121 and 150, though based on the deadline extension request, I realized that Kane trying to push RVS out to a nolynch makes no sense. Instead, I will Vote: Granola because he's the other player that I don't like the look of.

Theory: If Yew is scum, ssjt is also scum.

Discuss.

Alright first off, I don't actually think Tea and Sea are scumbuddies or something, but maybe town people who are allowed to talk. They strike me as more town. However, after rereading I realized that if they were coaligned scum or something, they're acting way too obvious about it.
Big Kane posts I'm looking at are 121 and 150, though based on the deadline extension request, I realized that Kane trying to push RVS out to a nolynch makes no sense. Instead, I will Vote: Granola because he's the other player that I don't like the look of.

Why did you think I want RVS and nolynch?? I was attacking Mathgirl a ton and pushing for a lynch. Your arguments make no sense so far. Also, the first paragraph of this post is just way too suckupy.
Hey Tea, on your theory- Are you referencing the fact that she seems to have a fairly strong negative read on Yew yet keeps her vote on me (that’s one thing I see)?

EBWOP: wouldn't really think of her as scum though otherwise, just Yew.

No Tea I don't believe that.

Be very careful when you explain why you think that to me.

(Also I actually kind of like sea this game and think she's townish?)

Those alignments seem unrelated to me. This is seastorm reacting normally to Yew being flat out weird.

Actually, if ssjt is scum, I'd say that Yew is town most likely, because her knowledge of Yew's knowledge doesn't seem to be very absolute. Especially that tiny thing about Kane being 0_o. That's a seemingly insignificant detail to catch him on, but if they were chatting in scum daychat, that would definitely be a thing sea would have been certain about.

But yeah I agree with Pala, I don't really think seastorm is scum. It seems moch more likely that Yewchung is.

I only see that if I really stretch my imagination.

Unvote

I'm still not entirely comfortable with Granola, but I am even less comfortable with Yew being the only other one on that wagon with me at the moment. Either he read this thread really tired or ... I don't know what. Still him being the only one that seems to share my opinion at the moment is not great.

Day ends in a few hours right?

I am also concerned that Yew is just being Yew - I can buy his mistake as being a legitimate mistake (because goddamn) and Tea jumping down his throat like that for reasons that make even less sense then his reasons against Pilot kiiiiind of makes me feel like he's trying to push him into derping around (like he always does and then we lynch him and he's town and we're all like 'oh but he was being Yewchung so it's hard to tell who the scum is etc. etc.)

Maybe it's just me (hence why I'm going to wait for Tea's response) but its really making me suspicious of Tea?

Day ends in a few hours right?

I thought we had one more day at least...
Votal please, mods?

I was votalling anyways. I'm not a mod, but here you go.

SpoilerShow

We Haven't Had a Votal in a While

Mathgirl (5): Fragowump, 0_o, Seedy, Garuru, Cat
Yewchung (3): MathGirl, Mirdini, A Killer Cuppa Tea
Pilot (2): Vortor, Granola
Tea (2): Anacreon, Fuzzy Pickles
Palamedes (1): TehPilot
Mirdini (1): Solaris
Seedy (1): Gene
Cat (1): Beruru
Boogeyman (1): Jacquerel
0_o (1): Seastorm
Garuru (1) Palamedes
Granola (1) Yewchung

Abstaining (2): Boogeyman

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch. When a player has seven they may not shoot someone. Day ends at 6:00 PM EST on April 20th.

Thank you!

Augh people are asking me questions that I'm much too lazy to answer. For the record, I don't like these "tell me what you think about [blank]" questions when they're not from veterans. I get the feeling that anyone else only asks them to hunt and peck for things they can use to reinforce their granola-scum preconceptions rather than evaluate them unbiased and as a whole. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this one time.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on Dinis point about the Pilot criticisms being fair when leveled at MG. All you have done with Pilot is agree with Teas points, but again he thinks those MG posts are weird while you don't see a problem there. Where does your opinion differ from his?

I think someone else may have brought it up, but Pilot's posts pretty much sounded like echoes. MG would say something and two posts later Pilot's saying the same thing. While one is trying to stimulate conversation, the other's just trying to look like they're active without effort.

Granola I would love to hear you defend the Pilot lynch over other lynches given the arguments for them? Kane I would also love to hear why you think Mathgirl was being insincere with her RVS ending antics (especially over someone like Pilot).

I think when I signed on to this wagon, the only other ones were MG and lurker prods. I've already stated my defense of MG, and lurker prods aren't real lynches so yeah, to start with it was the first genuine lynch that I agreed with the reasoning for. Since then, only the Garuru, and recently Yewchung, wagons have appeared. The Yewchung is obvious where it came from and I'll be watching that one closely for any more subconscious slips. As for Garuru, I'll admit I haven't been paying as much attention to him versus the amount of attention I've given to defending Math. But it also looks like his wagon's rolling back off him? I was gonna say this question was well thought out, but since there weren't any other wagons at the time of posting I retract that.

Additionally, the Granolaposts were #108 and #132. With such quotes as "I'd Vote: Fragowump for our first volunteer on account of leaving RVS without saying why." and "To me it definitely looked like someone jumping out of RVS with zero reasoning."

To Granolaman, GETTING OUT OF RVS IS A GOOD THING.

YOU ACTUALLY NEED A REASON TO JUMP OUT OF RVS OTHERWISE IT'S JUST A DEADLIER RANDOM VOTE.
But for real dude if everyone were just standing around joking when suddenly one of your friends says in their most serious voice "I want you to die" you'd be concerned about that right? Sometimes internet sarcasm gets lost in translation. Now actually find something scummy about me or else I'll just assume you're looking for an easy alt-lynch and destroy you accordingly.


Preview Edit: Huh that's a lot of posts that happened and this got really long. Nothing I really need to comment on sides Boogey: you're in a good place right now. Keep being uncomfortable with me it's good for you.

Sorry, that's April 22, not 20th. We have more than a day remaining. No need for last second panicking.

I'm honestly a little annoyed that I'm the biggest wagon. Then again I don't know Yewchung's meta for derping, but he has, so far, been very... confusing at best. It feels like he's trying to get his story straight and I don't like his posts one bit. But here I am with two more votes than him and I'm just a bit annoyed at that.

Also, Pala's been a lot of talking, not a lot of voting. I mean, I agree with most of the words he says, but you can only get so far without putting down a vote.

Hey Tea, on your theory- Are you referencing the fact that she seems to have a fairly strong negative read on Yew yet keeps her vote on me (that’s one thing I see)?

Yep.

I am also concerned that Yew is just being Yew - I can buy his mistake as being a legitimate mistake (because goddamn) and Tea jumping down his throat like that for reasons that make even less sense then his reasons against Pilot kiiiiind of makes me feel like he's trying to push him into derping around (like he always does and then we lynch him and he's town and we're all like 'oh but he was being Yewchung so it's hard to tell who the scum is etc. etc.)

Maybe it's just me (hence why I'm going to wait for Tea's response) but its really making me suspicious of Tea?

Really?

So a gif constitutes as more reasons than i provided, eh?

Also, is there any reason you're trying to induce suspicion on me without voting me yourself? You've spent half the game trying to convince everyone I'm scum, but your vote is still on Garuru. What gives.

Also, i never said that i adhered to the theory that ssjt and yew are aligned. (And note: I'm not saying here that i dont adhere to it, either.) I want opinions.

I'm also acutely aware of all the times i've been bullshit-lynched early in the game - particularly when the day is close to its end and we need a fast lynch - by people who have spent the entire day pointing out how THIS this is soooo scummy and THAT thing is soooo scummy, and when i'm lynched "oh, it was just tea being tea, doip"

...

In fact, after a quick glance back through your posts, you're accusing me of doing what YOU'RE doing. Except you're not putting your money where your mouth is and allowing yourself to be accountable for your posts.

Hell, that's all you've done all game aside from minor theorycrafting during RVS. What's more, you're kinda right. I voted Yew to see how he'd react (also, partially because what he did was slightly scummy, and partially cos Pilot doesn't seem to be talking). More importantly, i did it to see how other people would react. The fact that you pointed out similar things to what i pointed out (without committing, for the dozenth time this game) and then called me out for the same is telling.

Vote: Palamedes.

For the record, I don't like these "tell me what you think about [blank]" questions when they're not from veterans. I get the feeling that anyone else only asks them to hunt and peck for things they can use to reinforce their granola-scum preconceptions rather than evaluate them unbiased and as a whole. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this one time.

I'm sorry, i do that all the time :V

Thanks for the updates MG.

Anyway I'm gonna stay abstaining for the moment since we have another day. I want to see how this Yew thing goes for the moment since that could easily be a speedy mislynch in the making.

Also Granola, the whole talking down to me as a newb and then trying to bully me into having a better opinion of you in this game isn't doing said opinion any favors.

Pretty sure you're a veteran. You have like six thousand posts on mspaf and most of them are from mafia.

I don't really want to lynch Pala at the moment. I want to compare his play to his typical scumplay and see if the voting pattern is relevant. I think it's possible that he just forgot to vote, and as I said before, I think most of his post content is pretty okay.

Prevedit: Boogeyman, I beg that you do not merely sit around and watch as the game comes crashing down. Make a case and take a vote. Please.

Nyaaah I just kinda don't understand why I'm always getting lynchvoted D1.

Also Math I'm supporting you why are you trying to lynch me. :(

Alright, I'm going to try for this big post thingy to explain my actions.

Mathgirl: I think she's town actually, as she was trying to get us out of RVS and into conversation mode, and did so again during the suivig disscussion when it was apparent that the conversation wasn't going to cause actual game to happen.

I said this because of posts 79 and later 97, where she attempted to get the discussion out of RVS and mechanics discussion that was going nowhere and into the actual game. While this was done in a way that ended up being vaguely ineffective, I feel like it was still a very town action to make.

Thus, by extension that makes Kane and possibly Cat suspicious. Also I'm going to call more suspicion on Cat for bandwagoning based on a very weak argument by Kane.

I thought this because Kane jumped on Math for trying to end RVS, though it's been almost entirely allivated by the extension request, which wouldn't fit the plan.

Cat looks very suspicious for pretty much doing nothing, then popping in for a brief moment to throw her vote on Math's wagon, then dissapearing again.

Tea and Sea strike me as coaligned, so I'd watch for that.

I say this because it looked like Tea just came into the game and threw his vote on a wagon nobody else was pushing, then Sea immediately comes in and praises him for it. However, this might not mean coaligned, but rather just Sea supporting Tea. I made that first post while quite tired.

Granola seems to also have been trying to prevent RVS from ending, which isn't a good thing for town at all. Basic logic states that lynching D1, though random, is always better than a nolynch. Preventing an end to RVS so the deadline will hit is a scummy thing to do.

I say this because of posts that I have already pointed out, such as 108 where he says "Personally, I'd Vote: Fragowump for our first volunteer on account of leaving RVS without saying why."

Then he very quickly completely reverses his opinion in 149 upon being called out for that. See Boogeyman's post for some more on Granola. Thus, I'm going to keep my vote on Granola.

Now, I'd like to call out the people who haven't said anything since RVS. Namely Fuzzy Pickles, Jacq, Seedy, Solaris, Vortor, Fragowump.

I'm not saying that we should lynch them or anything, but could someone who knows them kinda poke them and remind them that this game is going on? That's what Dini did for me and it was quite usefu, as this game was going ridiculously slow during RVS so I just kinda stopped watching it.

I don't really want to lynch Pala at the moment. I want to compare his play to his typical scumplay and see if the voting pattern is relevant.

He does this to me every time he's scum.

Trying not to be too personal, but I don't recognize you and I'm not sure I've played against you in a game so I don't trust your opinion making skills yet.

And I don't think I'm trying to bully you? I honestly play better when people don't trust me.

EBWOP: Also Granola, even a completely random lynch from town D1 is more advantageous than a nolynch, unless it hits like a cop or something, because otherwise that's town giving their kill away, and letting the scumteam get their nightkill scot free. The real question is, which is better, a single kill that's guaranteed to hit town or two kills, one of which has a chance of hitting scum? I'd say it's always the second one.

SpoilerShow

Really?

So a gif constitutes as more reasons than i provided, eh?

When did I say that? I said your reasons for voting Yew were worse than your reasons for voting Pilot. When the hell did I bring in Mirdini?

Also, is there any reason you're trying to induce suspicion on me without voting me yourself? You've spent half the game trying to convince everyone I'm scum, but your vote is still on Garuru. What gives.

Because I'm still not super satisfied with Garuru and I wanted to see your response here? I even made a post saying 'hey gonna wait for Tea to respond before voting him' it's on this page come on.

Also, i never said that i adhered to the theory that ssjt and yew are aligned. (And note: I'm not saying here that i dont adhere to it, either.) I want opinions.

Why the fuck are you bringing it up then? Surely something made you see/think it because goddamn that's a specific idea to talk about if your going to waffle about it (also you waffling about it like this is the second most suspicious thing you could have done). Don't really like it in general because it always feels like something scum does - looking for other people to jump on it for them/validate it or accidentally warn them that they'll look scummy for pushing that angle.

I'm also acutely aware of all the times i've been bullshit-lynched early in the game - particularly when the day is close to its end and we need a fast lynch - by people who have spent the entire day pointing out how THIS this is soooo scummy and THAT thing is soooo scummy, and when i'm lynched "oh, it was just tea being tea, doip"

this is fair but honestly doesn't mean you couldn't be doing the same thing to Yew?

In fact, after a quick glance back through your posts, you're accusing me of doing what YOU'RE doing. Except you're not putting your money where your mouth is and allowing yourself to be accountable for your posts.

???

Hell, that's all you've done all game aside from minor theorycrafting during RVS. What's more, you're kinda right. I voted Yew to see how he'd react (also, partially because what he did was slightly scummy, and partially cos Pilot doesn't seem to be talking). More importantly, i did it to see how other people would react. The fact that you pointed out similar things to what i pointed out (without committing, for the dozenth time this game) and then called me out for the same is telling.

???

Seriously what the fuck are you talking about this literally makes no sense at all. Also I've done a hell of a lot more than you and the vast majority of the people in the game so far (but I guess you need a reason so it doesn't look like you're just lashing out at me for calling you out on things you even admit are fair points).

Yeah fuck it vote: Tea.

Oh hey and Mathgirl I uh

have been voting what are you talking about I literally have had votes out since RVS. Please clarify what you mean 'I forgot to vote'?

Oh yeah and that Yewpost.

The new one.

Like a part of me doesn't really believe he's scum because he pulls this exact same thing every time he's up to be lynched when town. At the same time if it's between him and Mathgirl I'd rather lynch him so that scum people can't push the 'oh hey look how scummy Yew is~' angle lategame.