-=- Crooks Hollow III Mafia -=- Day Five? (3/21)

146 is not a parroting at all. In fact, I am actually defending Mathgirl's right to make weird posts whereas everyone else is saying "wow Math sure looks like a good back-up lynch." Her "crime" is trying to keep this game from stagnating, and I sure as hell ain't gonna let that be punished. If we start killing players for getting the game rolling, what happens the next time things slow down? (There's probably something to be said about classical conditioning in here but I never paid much attention in psych class.) Anyways that's why MG gets my defense. If she truly gets scummier, let the vigilantes take care of her.

Yeah I definitely agree that people who are "getting the game rolling" shouldn't be killed, but if we can see that she's doing it more for herself than to try and help us get out of RVS it's scummy. Of course, this hinges on the fact that she is trying to do that, which just happens to be my opinion and the reason i'm backing this lynch.

My connection with Pilot is he is a terrible lynch with weak reasoning based on assigning a lot of suspicious motives to two small posts with nothing to them.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on Dinis point about the Pilot criticisms being fair when leveled at MG. All you have done with Pilot is agree with Teas points, but again he thinks those MG posts are weird while you don't see a problem there. Where does your opinion differ from his?

Also I am at work now so my posts are coming from my phone so they will be shorter for the next bit of day.

Blaah I've been busy with exams and stuff, and I voted Mirdini during RVS gawd can nobody read?

Meanwhile lemme just read the thread thus far because blah.

Okay, while we're deciding whether or not to lynch me, we're kind of stagnating on who else to lynch. Tea looked like a viable option earlier because he hadn't posted but after he started posting he wasn't bad. The timing is still :/ though, since he really didn't talk until there was pressure on him.

My problem with "I think that everyone is town" is not unique to this game, by the way. I don't remember why I said Avi was town, but the rest of the people that I called out each were talking quite a bit and nitpicking everything that I and others said. Not just because of the wagons they happened to be on. The usual thing though, is that the people who aren't town like to sit back and let townies talk and murder each other. which is why I tend to like the people who are talking because they are doing things.

I'd like to get more from Solaris, Cat, Yew, and Jacq. Not such high townreads on these guys. Vote Yewchung because you're not talking and those who are look town.

Pilot too. He's posted some, and kicked off the suivig discussion, but I didn't notice that he hadn't posted since then until Dini bought it up.
Boogeyman's also pinging me weirdly. Who is that question posed at? Also, while Dini put Pilot as doing the same thing as me, there's one big difference: I kept posting and trying to keep up conversation, trying to pull through and make it work. Pilot shushed before the game got going.

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On the other hand, because of all the "connections" I have, I understand my value as an infolynch, and my role isn't so amazing that I'd kick up a fuss about it being lost to the game. Obviously, I'd prefer not to be lynched but I'd almost rather some lynch than no lynch even if it's me. Just, if I'm lynched, I hope town actually uses Day 1 to help win.

prevedit: Hi yewchung! Keeping my vote where it is because it might actually be productive :D

My apologies for not posting - I had to get an infected toenail taken care of and that procedure knocked me off my feet for longer than I expected (hahaha get it? okay).

In the meantime, once I'm back on a more viable typing device I'll get to catching up and saying stuff. In the meantime, who is this boogeyman and why is he jumping to my defense out of nowhere.

kane going 'my vote wasn't random' iiiis a thing too I will give that to seastorm. ~You seem to have much more on me though sea so why aren't you voting me instead~

Um yeah I don't think that's weird behavior from her

Oh sorry that question was aimed at Granolaman

Is that sorry directed at me? (i wasn't answering what it was you were asking)
If not, sorry for misunderstanding.

No it was towards MG. this not being able to quote stuff effectively on my phone is a drag.

Alright, so my opinions on the lynch brigades thus far.

Mathgirl: I think she's town actually, as she was trying to get us out of RVS and into conversation mode, and did so again during the suivig disscussion when it was apparent that the conversation wasn't going to cause actual game to happen. Thus, by extension that makes Kane and possibly Cat suspicious. Also I'm going to call more suspicion on Cat for bandwagoning based on a very weak argument by Kane.

Tea, like me, seemed to be out for the first part of the game, but I have a policy of not judging people based on their not being there or being replaced or something. Tea seems to be doing stuff, but most of his posts have been fairly short and not really saying much, except for that first one.

Tea and Sea strike me as coaligned, so I'd watch for that.

Granola seems to also have been trying to prevent RVS from ending, which isn't a good thing for town at all. Basic logic states that lynching D1, though random, is always better than a nolynch. Preventing an end to RVS so the deadline will hit is a scummy thing to do.

Also, while lynching inactive players is a thing you can do, it's generally a safe lynch, and thus is one that I would think that scum team would push for.

I'm just going to go ahead and Vote: Mathgirl for now. See my above statement for reasoning.

EBWOP: If there's any other lynch brigades people want me to address, feel free to ask. I'll be here all week, with three weeks off a year for holidays.

YEWCHUNG WHAT DO YOU MEAN.

You said you think Mathgirl is really town and Kane/Cat look suspicious for voting her.

And then you vote Mathgirl and cite this as your reason?

Okay real post time (sorry, that Yew post smacked me upside the head and I had to respond asap to it).

(Ok, to be slightly less annoying, i will amend this to "not yet")

I expect to see them very very soon (like D2, especially if Math drops dead) otherwise I will hunt you down :3

Explain.

I... have already? Basically Garu's post coming right off after we decide to lynch the one guy who hasn't participated with a 'but it's bad to lynch lurkers despite this being the exact proper moment to' made me feel like he was defending you. Otherwise he would have probably dropped something like Dini did and say it was probably more due to you forgetting about the game/being busy. This gut suspicion was compounded by you deciding to ignore the whole Garuru thing that went down entirely despite it literally being one of the only two legit wagons (made weirder by the fact that you were pushing a new, weaker wagon at the exact same time).

They are the exact same thing.

I'd disagree. Like Mirdini said talking to people is tantamount to ~connections~ as in yeah they're connecting but it doesn't always mean shit? I mean we had that early scuffle and that literally was just 'oh hey Tea and Pala are at it again', and I've talked with Mirdini in thread but it was just bouncing light comments off of each other so our connections don't mean crap either (except now they do I bet because I mentioned them but w/e).

Part of it is the fact that people pounced on Mathy but didn't pounce on pilot.

Prolly because she was around and being more active/noticeable about it at the time? Like you said Pilot only made two posts and they were pretty much just doing the same thing.

Other things:

Granola I would love to hear you defend the Pilot lynch over other lynches given the arguments for them? Kane I would also love to hear why you think Mathgirl was being insincere with her RVS ending antics (especially over someone like Pilot).

Mathgirl: I think she's town actually

I'm just going to go ahead and Vote: Mathgirl for now. See my above statement for reasoning.

Vote: Yewchung

Alright, so my opinions on the lynch brigades thus far.

Mathgirl: I think she's town actually, as she was trying to get us out of RVS and into conversation mode, and did so again during the suivig disscussion when it was apparent that the conversation wasn't going to cause actual game to happen. Thus, by extension that makes Kane and possibly Cat suspicious. Also I'm going to call more suspicion on Cat for bandwagoning based on a very weak argument by Kane.

[...]

Also, while lynching inactive players is a thing you can do, it's generally a safe lynch, and thus is one that I would think that scum team would push for.

I'm just going to go ahead and Vote: Mathgirl for now. See my above statement for reasoning.

Can I vote you harder please?
I'm not doing the lurkerlynch thing because it's safe, I'm doing it because I see no other viable path to hit scum. The players who were active earlier on were reasonably towny with their logic and finger pointing. I don't like any wagon that's going on, and I'm much more comfortable with a lurkerlynch than a no lynch. And when I noticed that you had posted and read the thread, I kept my vote where it was because I wanted to get some reads goddammit. Which I'm getting out of you, and I'm not liking.
You're being waffly and I don't like it.

More things from this post that I don't like:

Tea and Sea strike me as coaligned, so I'd watch for that.

why?

Granola seems to also have been trying to prevent RVS from ending, which isn't a good thing for town at all. Basic logic states that lynching D1, though random, is always better than a nolynch. Preventing an end to RVS so the deadline will hit is a scummy thing to do.

When? I feel like Granola did his part in helping to end rvs. What post are you even referring to when you say that? This post is the only one I saw that was taking place at the relevant time, and it doesn't have those characteristics you portray him as having... He was posting legitimate thoughts by that point, not trying to lengthen rvs.

Oddly enough, I don't find myself disagreeing fundamentally with the stuff Yew said about Tea, but on the whole, I don't like that post.

Yewchung, a few questions:
a) Why are you voting me rather than literally anyone else that you didn't say was a townread?
b) What relates Tea and Sea so strongly?
c) What posts of Granolaman gave you that read?

Oh wait, I voted the wrong person. Silly Yew, don't make votes without READING YOUR OWN POSTS.

Vote: Kane I mean.

On Tea and Sea, Tea and Sea immediately jumped on the same lynch for very little reason, and then Sea praised Tea for making a good decision or something. They seem to be strongly bandwagoning.

Additionally, the Granolaposts were #108 and #132. With such quotes as "I'd Vote: Fragowump for our first volunteer on account of leaving RVS without saying why." and "To me it definitely looked like someone jumping out of RVS with zero reasoning."

To Granolaman, GETTING OUT OF RVS IS A GOOD THING.

EBWOP: To clarify, I think that Math ending RVS is good. Kane and Granola trying to stop that is bad. Cat is sorta bad for jumping on the bandwagon for no reason.

Um haha yeah no
how were we trying to stop that? have you actually read my posts?

EBWOP: Dunno about Granola, but I was merely pointing out my opinions on why she did what she did

Also, while lynching inactive players is a thing you can do, it's generally a safe lynch, and thus is one that I would think that scum team would push for.

I'm just going to go ahead and Vote: Mathgirl for now. See my above statement for reasoning.

Taking into the fact that you're replacing that with a vote for me...how the poop have I been inactive?

]Also I'm going to call more suspicion on Cat for bandwagoning based on a very weak argument by Kane.

Sorry for all this broken up posting, but I keep noticing other things.

It's not a weak argument; it's not even an argument at all. I just happen to disagree with you on her motives when she tried to lead us out of RVS. I may be wrong, but I see it as I see it and that's what I'm going to stick by.

Okay, while we're deciding whether or not to lynch me, we're kind of stagnating on who else to lynch. Tea looked like a viable option earlier because he hadn't posted but after he started posting he wasn't bad. The timing is still :/ though, since he really didn't talk until there was pressure on him.

I'd argue that i was under pressure (or, at least had votes on me) long before i started posting. It wasn't so much that i forgot i was in the game, it was more that i hadnt realised it was started until someone reminded me.

Mathgirl: I think she's town actually, as she was trying to get us out of RVS and into conversation mode, and did so again during the suivig disscussion when it was apparent that the conversation wasn't going to cause actual game to happen. Thus, by extension that makes Kane and possibly Cat suspicious. Also I'm going to call more suspicion on Cat for bandwagoning based on a very weak argument by Kane.

...

I'm just going to go ahead and Vote: Mathgirl for now. See my above statement for reasoning.

???
(lol @ how pala and dini also immediately jumped on this)

(Ok, to be slightly less annoying, i will amend this to "not yet")

I expect to see them very very soon (like D2, especially if Math drops dead) otherwise I will hunt you down :3

That's my plan, actually. (Its still really early and i want people i have my eyes on to not realise i have my eyes on them.)

Explain.

I... have already? Basically Garu's post coming right off after we decide to lynch the one guy who hasn't participated with a 'but it's bad to lynch lurkers despite this being the exact proper moment to' made me feel like he was defending you. Otherwise he would have probably dropped something like Dini did and say it was probably more due to you forgetting about the game/being busy. This gut suspicion was compounded by you deciding to ignore the whole Garuru thing that went down entirely despite it literally being one of the only two legit wagons (made weirder by the fact that you were pushing a new, weaker wagon at the exact same time).

Ah. Well, upon rereading, i dont think he's quite as scummy as Mathie and Pilot. Certainly someone who's worth keeping an eye on, and if he steps in it, worth a lynch, but he's not looking as bad as the other two, imo.

They are the exact same thing.

I'd disagree. Like Mirdini said talking to people is tantamount to ~connections~ as in yeah they're connecting but it doesn't always mean shit? I mean we had that early scuffle and that literally was just 'oh hey Tea and Pala are at it again', and I've talked with Mirdini in thread but it was just bouncing light comments off of each other so our connections don't mean crap either (except now they do I bet because I mentioned them but w/e).

To be altruistic, the "links" i have are pretty minor (which is part of the reason im not stating them cos, well, they are liable to change). Not all the people who have been talking to each other have links, and some limks feel stronger than other links, and im hoping time will develop the connections that are real. But hey, its one of them things where, if mathie flips scum and you reread the topic under that light, some things will read strangely (slightly less strange if she flips town, perhaps).

Part of it is the fact that people pounced on Mathy but didn't pounce on pilot.

Prolly because she was around and being more active/noticeable about it at the time? Like you said Pilot only made two posts and they were pretty much just doing the same thing.

Mathie kept it up, but pilot didn't; Mathie seems (slightly more) genuine, but pilot doesn't. Also, at the time i voted Pilot, people were already pressuring Mathie, but pilot was going ignored.

Oh wait, I voted the wrong person. Silly Yew, don't make votes without READING YOUR OWN POSTS.

Vote: Kane I mean.

On Tea and Sea, Tea and Sea immediately jumped on the same lynch for very little reason, and then Sea praised Tea for making a good decision or something. They seem to be strongly bandwagoning.

Additionally, the Granolaposts were #108 and #132. With such quotes as "I'd Vote: Fragowump for our first volunteer on account of leaving RVS without saying why." and "To me it definitely looked like someone jumping out of RVS with zero reasoning."

To Granolaman, GETTING OUT OF RVS IS A GOOD THING.

Eurgh. Even if i take your mistaken vote for granted, your thinking about me and storm being coaligned is... strange. So you're saying that i started a bandwagon on someone specifically to have my scumbuddy seastorm jump on it? Why? Also, what about the other people who jumped on that wagon? Granola comes to mind particularly, because his jump on the wagon was something i considered to be noteworthy. And why're you voting Kane? What in particular don't you like about him?

Y'know what, I still want Pilot looked at, but for now: Vote: Yewchung

Granola I would love to hear you defend the Pilot lynch over other lynches given the arguments for them? Kane I would also love to hear why you think Mathgirl was being insincere with her RVS ending antics (especially over someone like Pilot).

Well, her "attempts" were basically two consecutive posts (#78, #79), the first of which was asking whether anyone else could end RVS. The second post had a very early weak attempt of a C/D/V.

Like I've said earlier, I believe she was acting rather to promote her towniness and look good rather than really get us out of RVS. Clearly she's much more experienced than me, so I thought that C/D/V not being effective so early would be something she would know, and that if she was really trying to end RVS she would ask something meaningful.

It's true that I'm not targetting Pilot, because I thought he was just lazy rather than self-serving. He wasn't trying to look good, whether or not he was doing a good job (he wasn't), imo. Again, please let me know if there's anything weird here.

I'd also like to hear more from beruru. Her silence is putting me on edge.

Like I've said earlier, I believe she was acting rather to promote her towniness and look good rather than really get us out of RVS. Clearly she's much more experienced than me, so I thought that C/D/V not being effective so early would be something she would know, and that if she was really trying to end RVS she would ask something meaningful.

What I was trying to do was to get connections between people, so that any lynch we end up with would become more informative. There was nothing very meaningful to ask at that point, because it was all RVS and I was getting tired of it. Someone had to do try to pull us out.

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Also, don't pull the "not very experienced" card to take the burden off. You've been playing for a good 4-5 months now, and have even modded a few games that were actually pretty well balanced yet creative. I don't know about you, but that looks like "mafia experience" to me. Everyone always feels like a newb. But eventually you're not, and you are not.