RE: Tropefia - A PYP - D3: Dead Walrus (19/24) - You can talk again
06-06-2013, 06:25 PM
MrGuy, since you're being reasonable enough to counterpoint me unlike Red who's either a vicious bandwagoner or a Scum pretending to be a vicious bandwagoner (someone else should probably meta argument that, I don't know from experience)
I'll debate you. Sorta.
I'm claiming bulletproof because I was shot and my role is now useless. I'm already last priority to get shot, so I might as well tell everyone what I know.
Sure, I didn't actually consider town roleblocker. Does that work against scum kills, though? I also didn't consider doctor.
However, if either of these two things were the case, shouldn't I have been called out on it by now?
Don't give me nonsense about how it's suicide for that town member to reveal himself. Any role trading 1 for 1 with a scum is worth the trade when scum should be badly outnumbered. (What is scum count in a 24 person game, 5-6?) Well, actually, maybe not if you're like, oracle or something, but I'd still say it was worth it.
This point would be valid if I didn't have other points backing me up, like the fact that no one else has actually contradicted me, role wise. It's one of them "your word against mine" arguments.
I'm saying "why would scum be so stupid as to claim this" argument because it doesn't. Make. Sense. At all.
I thought logic was like, I dunno, part of the process.
Dunno what WIFOM is.
Nope. I mean, I'm unfamiliar with mafia around here, but I've played other things pretty frequently.
If someone counterclaimed bulletproof, town would know that either one of us was scum. This early in the game, that's a good trade. If I were the scum, after about one day/night's worth of testing, we'd have one person we knew was town, and a dead scum. That's worthwhile.
I'll debate you. Sorta.
(06-06-2013, 01:22 PM)MrGuy Wrote: »I appreciate that, to some extent, but the sheer amount of words going into "here is why I am not scum" - especially ignoring WIFOM bullshit entirely - is kind of suspect.Probably, but that's just me. I compiled all of my arguments into one post since I was annoyed that it seemed like people weren't reading anything.
Quote:This seems a bit strange because you're claiming bulletproof and at the same time being all "scum wouldn't have killed nobody! That's COUNTERPRODUCTIVE," completely ignoring the possibility of a doctor, town roleblocker (as Red mentioned), some other town power role that's capable of stopping a kill some way or another, or various third-party bullshit. Not to mention that the scenario in which scum went for you but were blocked (which I guess is what you're implying happened?) to me just raises the question "if you were scum, wouldn't this whole charade be a great way to 'prove' innocence, since the scum 'obviously' targeted you?"
I'm claiming bulletproof because I was shot and my role is now useless. I'm already last priority to get shot, so I might as well tell everyone what I know.
Sure, I didn't actually consider town roleblocker. Does that work against scum kills, though? I also didn't consider doctor.
However, if either of these two things were the case, shouldn't I have been called out on it by now?
Don't give me nonsense about how it's suicide for that town member to reveal himself. Any role trading 1 for 1 with a scum is worth the trade when scum should be badly outnumbered. (What is scum count in a 24 person game, 5-6?) Well, actually, maybe not if you're like, oracle or something, but I'd still say it was worth it.
Quote:Why the fuck are you saying "why would scum be so stupid as to claim this," why would you ever do this, it just instinctively pushes me towards "reverse psychology scum" and then inevitable WIFOM
This point would be valid if I didn't have other points backing me up, like the fact that no one else has actually contradicted me, role wise. It's one of them "your word against mine" arguments.
I'm saying "why would scum be so stupid as to claim this" argument because it doesn't. Make. Sense. At all.
I thought logic was like, I dunno, part of the process.
Dunno what WIFOM is.
Quote:Also here's one I just realized weirds me out:
myw Wrote:If I'm scum, and there's a town bulletproof, I woulda been called out already.
If I'm scum and there is no town bulletproof, then i'm just so incredibly ballsy that I'll declare myself a role when there are like 18 people left.
^ It would not make any sense for me to risk outing myself, due to the above pieces of information.
Admittedly this one might just be my lack of familiarity with mafia strategy, but... if somebody counterclaimed, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of being a bulletproof? It'd essentially be their word against yours, and the mafia wouldn't bother to shoot them, which means they wouldn't waste a nightkill.
Nope. I mean, I'm unfamiliar with mafia around here, but I've played other things pretty frequently.
If someone counterclaimed bulletproof, town would know that either one of us was scum. This early in the game, that's a good trade. If I were the scum, after about one day/night's worth of testing, we'd have one person we knew was town, and a dead scum. That's worthwhile.