Webcomic Deer Rectory

I'm not sure what debate you want to have here. You brought up several story related problems with homestuck,and in many ways I agree with you. However as pointed out by Solaris the narrative quality of homestuck is not really the reason people read it. People can easily read and enjoy it and that alone is enough reason to keep it out of our StayAwayCellar. Any discussion about other aspects of the story is tangential .

Edit: Okay so I re-read Wheat's opening post and saw that this was a Webcomic Disscussion Thread and not just a link to commonly enjoyed webcomics, hence my initial dismissal of your complaints.

While, like I said, I generally agree with you, lets talk about your HS points, in the spoilers below.

HOWMESTWAK BALLOW

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Less than 50%" of the 5000+ pages so far have advanced the story

Talking about pagecount in HS isn't really a fair comparision for other mediums. Many pages are single panel events, in long series of other single panel events. A new page could consist simply of a slightly more pixilated, zoomed in version of a previous panel. Using "pages" in homestuck as the traditional means for story volume or size doesn't really apply.

I think a more appropriate description of the pacing in homestuck would be "sporadic", for instance, a page which moves the plot forward could be as simple as "John > go downstairs", and you can have dozens of those tiny plot advancements in a row with no serious plot-jump. Then, up pops a flash movie and suddenly everybody is dying and the plot is racing at an almost uncomfortable speed.

The motive of the primary antagonist is "yet to be revealed" after 5000+ pages.

Yes, but this fits in with the nature of the story. Homestuck characters are generally more simplistic than other characters. Creating a well-flushed out villian whose primary motive extends beyond just "likes to make people suffer" isn't something you'd find in homestuck and the typical homestuck characterization wouldn't work in a multi-year story. There needs to be an element of mystery.

This element of mystery has been pervasive throughout the webcomic's history. "What does John's friend look like?", "Who are these aliens bothering them?", "What does each prototyping look like?", "What is the scratch", "What does Lord English look like?"

There is always a mystery yet to be revealed, and each one tends to be "bigger" in some way. With that pattern it makes sense that details about Homestucks Big Bad would be withheld until much later in the story.

The motive given for the secondary antagonist is he is a bad guy.

I think this one probably the biggest oversimplification of the bunch. Jack is established as a character who is prone to violence, hates the hierarchy in place above him, but more than anything is ambitious. When he gets his power-up, the first thing he does is attack the leaders of his hierarchy, while killing anyone in his way. When he gets even more capabilities, he then tries to destroy the members of the even larger, universe-building hiearchy. When he "escapes" that universe, he finds himself trapped in yet another iteration and begins to tear that one down as well.

Those three characteristics motivate every iteration of Jack. In trollverse, he strikes up a deal based on being able to tear down the hierarchy, then leaves to go establish his own. In old-kid verse, the powers that be let him try and cheat the system by murdering those who represent the larger universe-building group. He enjoys that.

The story advances the characters. Yes, you read that correctly.

I'd say this seems true. The problem here is that the "Universe" is as much a character as any other in homestuck verse. It has motives and characteristics which it uses to advance the plot towards its own means. Terms like "paradox-space" and "Skiaia" are often talked about by other characters as if they were active individuals. "Skiaia will protect itself." "paradox-space won't allow it". When a plot advancement occurs that isn't driven by one of the walking breathing characters, it's because of some driving force of the "universe" character.

None of the characters have undergone any sort of development or changed after 5000+ pages. Their arcs are "in progress".

False. i.e. Rose

When asked why Andrew Hussie includes regular recaps since nobody they knew had trouble understanding the story, they did not know and could not guess.

Okay, I admit. There were some story points that were difficult for me to understand until I went and actually read through the "recap". I don't recall the exact point, but I think it had something to do with something implied in a movie sequence but not fully expounded on.

John Egbert is a "useless" "decoy protagonist", has no motive or personality, and is just "along for the ride". His entire purpose for existing is to produce and receive dialog that is not relevant to the plot in any way. The motives of the other protagonists are to avoid the dickery of the antagonists, which they have no motivation for.

I like the term "decoy protagonist". I sort of feel that hussie will shoe-horn in some way for John to be the hero at the end of the day, but he really hasn't done that so far. Now saying his entire purpose is to be ancillary to the story isn't completely accurate. Remember "wind drill"? That was a thing he did. Also he received a package from someone once.

As for the other protagonists, and hussey's characters in general. Solaris said it pretty well. They have a few key characterization points and don't go much beyond that. When they have an opportunity to take a break from avoiding death, that's when those characterization points begin to determine how they will react in dialogue and other situations.

There is no central protagonist. If one had to be pinned down it is "probably Rose or maybe Vriska".

I agree with the first statement. Though I think that Rose or Vriska make poor choices for primary protagonists. They have the advantage of being a pair of the few characters that have actually been shown to have deeper characterization or character changes in the story.

The story "isn't very important", and it doesn't matter how long Andrew Hussie takes to tell it.

Yup. People will tend to like this regardless of story quality. The main selling point in Homestuck has never been it's story, and really it doesn't need to be.

It is not possible to define the characters through their actions, only their dialog.

While there are some characters where this is true, there are some whose actions take up the larger part of their characterization. i.e. Jack.

On a side note: Not sure it's good form to tout your own story above another. There are plenty of other comics and stories to choose from and picking one you've designed hurts your argument, and makes you seem a tad conceited. Which is also my biggest complaint against mr. hussie.