Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - Dragon Fogel - 01-07-2015
So, I have this idea that I'm trying to get a novel (or more than one novel) out of. I have a basic notion for a setting but I'm having trouble narrowing it down to a specific plot and coming up with specific characters.
The basic concept is that the universe runs on magic. We here on Earth are an exception; our section of space is in a magical deadzone. Because of this, we don't believe magic exists, and we've never encountered alien life because all their ships run on magic, so they never come anywhere near here.
But Earth, lacking magic, develops science. In the far future, they develop faster-than-light travel, and leave the deadzone. The story is, in broad strokes, about humans learning of the existence of magic, and alien cultures learning about what can be done without magic, and how this is going to affect everyone.
I have some additional ideas that I'll get to in a bit, when I'm more awake, but those are the basics. Most of what I have is worldbuilding, though, and I'm trying to get from there to a plot and character arcs.
Note that, since I intend to make an actual novel out of this, (and probably a whole series because, obviously, there's a lot to explore in a whole dang universe) there may be ideas talked about in this thread that will be significant plot developments. If you have confidence in my ability to finish this and would like to be surprised by what these ideas are, then you may not want to follow this thread too closely.
Feel free to ask any questions you may have about the setting; I may not have answers right away, but they'll be useful for me to think about.
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - Gatr - 01-07-2015
How would you approach Arthur C. Clarke's notion that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"?
Like, what is the core difference between the two that prevents magic from being "technology"?
(or vice versa for both of these)
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - Dragon Fogel - 01-07-2015
Yeah, this is one of the first things I had to answer when I started thinking about this seriously. And in-story this is likely to be a big revelation.
So I may as well say that the spoilers for a work that doesn't exist yet are coming now. I don't want to overplay that, but I want to let people decide for themselves if they want to be surprised by this stuff.
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SpoilerThe difference is that magic comes from gods.
The universe is filled with deities that have a physical presence and spheres of influence. They are, in general, specific to one civilization. Sometimes just one planet.
I don't have the full details of how gods "produce" mana worked out - whether they expect you to worship them to use it, or whether it's just something that exists around a god. What I do know is that there isn't going to be just one model for how gods interact with their worshipers - some will rule directly, others by proxy, and others still won't take any interest in mortal affairs at all.
Of course, one major consequence of this is that it essentially implies Earth doesn't have a god. I'm not entirely sure how this fits into the overall story, but it's a big thing that I can't just toss out there and not do anything with.
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - ICan'tGiveCredit - 01-07-2015
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SpoilerIt would mean Earthlings have to conform to the social customs that alien gods expect from their peoples (when worshiping a god from another planet) :P imagine an Earthling squabbling to conform to alien customs to please a strange god.
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - OrangeAipom - 03-24-2015
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SpoilerWhere did Earth's religions come from if our gods are false?
What if we kidnapped a god and put it on our planet?
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - SupahKiven - 03-24-2015
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SpoilerMaybe Earth does have a god, and they're the reason that Earth doesn't have any magic? Like, maybe their 'sphere of influence' creates or fuels the antimagic zone?
And perhaps they're bound inside the Earth or something, making it impossible for them to be seen/heard/whatever by humans, so they instead sort of 'plant' ideas about themself in their heads as a way to communicate that they're there, but humans misconstrue the ideas, leading to all the conflicting religions.
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - ICan'tGiveCredit - 03-24-2015
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Spoiler (03-24-2015, 07:44 PM)SupahKiven Wrote: »Maybe Earth does have a god, and they're the reason that Earth doesn't have any magic? Like, maybe their 'sphere of influence' creates or fuels the antimagic zone?
And perhaps they're bound inside the Earth or something, making it impossible for them to be seen/heard/whatever by humans, so they instead sort of 'plant' ideas about themself in their heads as a way to communicate that they're there, but humans misconstrue the ideas, leading to all the conflicting religions.
Would the earth at least have some sort of "divinity miracle system" then?
More than likely, if you're praying to your idea of a "god", it's the gods bound to the earth and they will maybe "answer" your prayers via miracles, awarding you some sort of competitive advantage over MAGICIANS FROM ANOTHER PLANET via miraculously good swordplay. B/c really, can you stop that many swords/swordstrikes with magic? Can you stop an ambush you just walked into with magic?
You know what would be hilarious? The miracles stop working when they go to another planet
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - Palamedes - 03-24-2015
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SpoilerWhat if we were worshipping the wrong gods until recently? You know, gods that don't exist or are extremely far away and thus can't influence anything here. The world would change entirely when we inadvertently (or purposely) started to worship the right gods.
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - Dragon Fogel - 03-24-2015
Oh, hey, people are saying stuff.
I have a draft I was working on where I tried to explain some of the races I'm thinking of for this, but for now I guess I'll do some more specific responses.
(01-07-2015, 09:36 PM)ICantGiveCredit Wrote: »
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SpoilerIt would mean Earthlings have to conform to the social customs that alien gods expect from their peoples (when worshiping a god from another planet) :P imagine an Earthling squabbling to conform to alien customs to please a strange god.
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SpoilerThat's not really the direction I want to go in. Humans aren't going to use magic, or if they do it's going to be treated as an unusual exception.
There is going to be a lot of cultural conflict, though, and the customs of alien societies are likely to be a big part of that. So this isn't completely off; it's just not related to magic, per se.
(03-24-2015, 05:18 PM)Geoluhread Wrote: »
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SpoilerWhere did Earth's religions come from if our gods are false?
What if we kidnapped a god and put it on our planet?
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SpoilerThere's an obvious answer to the first question - every religion on Earth is entirely the creation of humans. That's not to say it's necessarily the answer I'll go with, but it's pretty much my fallback position.
The second question raises some points I haven't fully thought out about how gods work. What I can say is that kidnapping a god isn't easy, and not just because of their sheer power; short version is that they're linked to their home planet, and if you take them far enough away from it they'll stop being a god. There might be ways to avoid that, but they won't be easy to pull off.
(03-24-2015, 07:44 PM)SupahKiven Wrote: »
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SpoilerMaybe Earth does have a god, and they're the reason that Earth doesn't have any magic? Like, maybe their 'sphere of influence' creates or fuels the antimagic zone?
And perhaps they're bound inside the Earth or something, making it impossible for them to be seen/heard/whatever by humans, so they instead sort of 'plant' ideas about themself in their heads as a way to communicate that they're there, but humans misconstrue the ideas, leading to all the conflicting religions.
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SpoilerI have given thought to Earth having a god in hiding or that's bound away, but what I'm leaning towards most is that Earth's god is dead and has been for a long time. Probably even before Earth was fully formed.
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - ICan'tGiveCredit - 03-24-2015
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SpoilerMaybe a cult forms, one that managed to find the right one, until, to stand against them, the rest of the world uses the cult's own methods against them, worshipping an opposing god. which is pretty much the god's name reversed, and of the opposing element
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - Dragon Fogel - 03-24-2015
(03-24-2015, 08:15 PM)Palamedes Wrote: »
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SpoilerWhat if we were worshipping the wrong gods until recently? You know, gods that don't exist or are extremely far away and thus can't influence anything here. The world would change entirely when we inadvertently (or purposely) started to worship the right gods.
You posted this while I was writing that previous thing up.
I don't think I'll use it for this particular story, but I really like the idea and I just wanted to note that.
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - ICan'tGiveCredit - 03-24-2015
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Spoiler (03-24-2015, 08:19 PM)Dragon Fogel Wrote: »I have given thought to Earth having a god in hiding or that's bound away, but what I'm leaning towards most is that Earth's god is dead and has been for a long time. Probably even before Earth was fully formed.
Well this gives rise to a new idea: Magic from another planet, possibly due to some INTERSTELLAR MAGIC WAR going on, dispersed through space, and some of it reached earth, and this magic percolated through the earth and rejuvenated the dead god. Hence returning some of that long-lost divine power to the humans.
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - Palamedes - 03-24-2015
What about Earth's god being one that is a direct contrast to magic? A god of technology or void or what have you? Its influence could help to explain the deadzone and why nobody was ever able of figuring out non-magical ways of traversing it (because that could/would be a huge advantage to the various magical races).
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - Dragon Fogel - 03-24-2015
I prefer a dead god because that's more cultural distance between humans and everyone else. I think that's the core of what I'm aiming for.
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - ICan'tGiveCredit - 03-24-2015
Does this mean gods = magic and every other planet with life has one or more?
RE: Space Magic: A Brainstorming Thread - Palamedes - 03-25-2015
Hm yeah. If you had an anti-magic god that would more be religious distance, which while fits into cultural distance but is much more specialized and would probably work out very differently.
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