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+--- Thread: An important philosophical quandry (/showthread.php?tid=7162)
An important philosophical quandry - btp - 02-23-2025
What is the closest analogue for death in the pokemon games?
Specifically, I mean, from a gameplay perspective.
There's 3-4 options that initially come to mind.
1) Fainting (or the total party "white out"), but with the ease that a fainted pokemon can recover at a pokemon center, it hardly carries the same permanence of death.
2) Releasing your pokemon. This, I think is the obvious choice as it carries the permanence of never seeing your pokemon again, but there's enough flavor to suggest the idea that your pokemon is out there in the world possibly living its best life. The loss feels more like a breakup than death.
3) Trading is the weakest inclusion here, as you could in theory have your pokemon traded back to you, and it even remembers that you were the original trainer who caught it. But I think it deserves mention as once the trade occurs, your pokemon is fully gone from your plane of existence.
4) Evolving. See this really shouldn't be on this list. After all, evolution in pokemon is symbolic of growth. It's the reason pokemon go from cute baby to akward middle form before landing into their matured adult form. It's baked into the design of the game and is something to be celebrated.
...however... I'm starting to think that isn't the case.
I think that, in fact, evolution is the most death-like out of all the pokemon game mechanics. It's sudden, sometimes unexpected. The change between forms is abrupt and disjointed. It is permanent. Once your starter baby evolves, it can never go back...
...Maybe I've been thinking about this because my 4 year old really loved her sprigatito. Perhaps this is on my mind because her dad forgot that you're supposed to press "B" repeatedly and not just hold it to prevent her level 34 sprigatitio from evolving. Maybe pokemon scarlett has an autosave function that activates right after evolution completes and frantically resetting the switch doesn't let you go back.
I murdered my daughter's first pokemon, and I don't know what to tell her.
RE: An important philosophical quandry - Lankie - 02-27-2025
What about all the pokemon that just straight up don't evolve? Are they immortal?
What about Tandemaus, whos evolution (Maushold) is just exactly the same as the previous except theres now a lil' baby one with them?
RE: An important philosophical quandry - Ixcaliber - 02-28-2025
i'm calling the pokemon police on you bob
RE: An important philosophical quandry - btp - 03-01-2025
(02-27-2025, 08:26 PM)Lankie Wrote: »What about all the pokemon that just straight up don't evolve? Are they immortal?
Look, her second favorite pokemon is an Orthworm named Gummy and he's at least more immortal than a very cute grasscat was.
(02-27-2025, 08:26 PM)Lankie Wrote: »What about Tandemaus, whos evolution (Maushold) is just exactly the same as the previous except theres now a lil' baby one with them?
I have a few thoughts on Maushold
1) They don't actually evolve. They just use the evolution mechanic to give them a chance to finally stop having to hide their very real child.
2) The baby Maus's is more like the second head on a Weezing than an actual baby. Perhaps more like when a real world hydra buds off, the parent hasn't died. Even the pokedex says nobody knows for sure how they babies are related (again maybe not actual evolution)
Ix Wrote:i'm calling the pokemon police on you bobSee that's the thing!
When I die, because Ix swatted me with a dozen Officer Jennys, what is my kid going to expect?
Do they think I'll suddenly reappear in a flash of light, but this time I have an extra head and some punk rock outfit?
What happens when stage 2 evolution me doesn't show up? What kind of abandonment complex will that create?
Pokemon has set up the expectation that when your longtime partner kicks it, it'll be immediately replaced with a larger, much scarier/angrier version of itself...I'm not sure that's a healthy expectation to set up regarding death.
RE: An important philosophical quandry - Schazer - 03-06-2025
explain shedinja then
RE: An important philosophical quandry - btp - 03-06-2025
(03-06-2025, 11:16 AM)Schazer Wrote: »explain shedinja then
I'm SO glad you brought up Shedinja.
Real world grasshoppers/katydids are possibly one of the best kinds of pets for kids to have.
Their food is just a chunk of grass you ripped from outside. They are that perfect blend of harmless and alien. Nothing teaches a kid that "yo, bugs are cool." more than having a small grasshopper walk on their arm and jump around their room.
Also, they have a natural exit strategy - once they start to scream constantly, you can just let them free outside and you can avoid all of the "Oh my poor baby pet died." Nah, It just was ready to go outside and make friends and it kept you up all night to let you know that.
One of these found its way into my home and it stayed here for weeks.
Here's the problem: It did just actually die one day, and I had to give it a funeral to give my daughter an unexpected but healthy lesson about grief and the frailty of life.
EXCEPT
- I am an idiot - and when I went back outside to check on it I found frigg'n Shedinja right where I left it and thought That's a weird way for a bird to eat this katydid, just busting the head open and sucking the juices out and OH WAIT
That little green a*hole wasn't frozen in place because it was dead...IT WAS MOLTING
So I told my daughter this and that very night we followed the screeching sounds and saw it (or an adult member of its exact species) sitting on our fence and shouting at the top of its legs before flying away.
So now my daughter has TWO major data points regarding death:
1) My dad killed my favorite cat pokemon and it turned into an angry green child
2) My favorite real world pet died and this means that it grew wings and shouts a bunch now.
I just feel like I am messing up the messaging here.
RE: An important philosophical quandry - btp - 03-06-2025
Immediate follow up about this:
In the BLUEY episode about death (Copycat - fantastic episode btw)
When Bandit takes the wounded budgie to the vet, Bluey copes with the bird's death by mimicking her dad's healthy reactions.
WHAT DID NOT HAPPEN, was the budgie suddenly COMING BACK TO LIFE with extra appendages and angry scowl on it's head!