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+--- Thread: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. (/showthread.php?tid=197)
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RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Pick Yer Poison - 01-24-2014
Weird, I absolutely loved Ghost Trick. The characters were lovable and unique, the gameplay was wonderful, and the art style captured my heart. It may be somewhat trial and error, but in a way that's sort of the point. You're back to where you were in moments in most cases, and the entire point of the gameplay is that you're able to try that short time-frame as many times as you want. It's also why it gives you a second checkpoint in most levels so you don't have to sit through half of it again.
Once you're done playing, maybe check out Matthewmatosis' review of it - you've given him high praise for his reviews in the past, I believe, and he did one of Ghost Trick.
(01-24-2014, 04:10 PM)Superfrequency Wrote: »The game also just refused to let me solve a puzzle in an alternate way that made complete sense because that's not The Solution. So yeah this is starting to try my patience. I should have guessed that though given that objects are only useful when the plot demands. I.e., the game is inherently railroaded in a frustrating way.
??? isn't this like 99% of puzzle games though? I dunno, I never really had a problem with it. There was one puzzle (the one with the bullet) that took me a while to figure out, but the game as a whole was a wholly enjoyable ride for me.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Godbot - 01-24-2014
(01-24-2014, 02:28 PM)Superfrequency Wrote: »ee: I thought it couldn't get any dumber, but then they add a timed action that you getIt's not some cheap attempt to extend the game, it's storytelling. The whole point is that you're blindsided by it, so that you can go back in time and do it right the next time. That's how all the levels work.
ONE
SHOT
at before you instafail.
And not being able to instantly skip to the last place you failed would make the game go a little faster, but the whole point is that you have to fully understand the situation, learn what needs to happen, and make everything go perfectly. If you could instantly reset when you make a mistake, the game would become pure trial-and-error. Think about how Super Monkey Ball would be if you could press a button to rewind five seconds every single time you make a mistake.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - BRPXQZME - 01-24-2014
I don’t know the game in question, but letting people skip stuff is also a very good way to make sure people don’t read stuff, so you do have to design around that ability to skip text very carefully.
/me is attempting to implement VCR controls on cutscenes for current project
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Godbot - 01-24-2014
VCR controls on cutscenes sound like a good idea. Even if you skip through them, you'd get a fast-forwarded summary of what happened, and you could go back and watch again if you missed what someone was saying. Phoenix Wright lets you press a button to reread the last few lines of dialogue, which I've really appreciated, and it'd be nice to have something like that for real-time dialogue, too.
I've been playing Radiant Historia, which is a jrpg about a dude who can travel back in time and create alternate timelines, which means rewatching lots of cutscenes and frequently going back to a time where you don't immediately remember what you're supposed to be doing. To make up for that, you can fast-forward through dialogue, press start to skip to the next scene, and open the menu to get a reminder of what your current objective is. You also get a map of the entire timeline with a synopsis of the game so far, so you can check when and where you are, which timeline you're in, and what's going on. It's really spoiled me for other RPGs. I wish they all had features like that.
(It's also pretty fun in general. It's got good writing, a neat battle system that stays fresh, and an unusually plausible premise for an RPG. I'd recommend it, provided you're into reading a lot of dialogue and hearing about a lot of weird fantasy-setting politics.)
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - MaxieSatan - 01-24-2014
Radiant Historia was great but that block puzzle where you have to fight the blocks.
Also the final boss fight reminded me of a Dr. Seuss landscape more than... whatever it was supposed to resemble, I guess.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - weirdee - 01-24-2014
I compare it to the Kefka fight, but with more breaking of time and space
thank god for the "shut up, i'm a time traveler" skip privilege
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Not The Author - 01-24-2014
If I recall correctly, at least one of the missions in Ghost Trick contains checkpoints, and while the mission itself is a bit of a special case, I'm not entirely sure why checkpoints could not have been applied to any other mission. If the concern is storytelling (wherein the player might forget what was going on, or the context of the mission as demonstrated earlier), then (for example) the checkpoints might only apply within a single play session. If the concern is that the player might become trapped by having done some sequence of events incorrectly, then the checkpoints should account for that. Maybe make them explicitly event-based, and give the player the option to redo from start if they want more time. I really am not sure a scenario exists (outside of developer time constraints) that would prevent the implementation of such a system.
Strong endorsements towards Radiant Historia! I think it pulls off the time travel in a way that enhances the narrative similar to Groundhog Day and Majora's Mask, though not exactly. It does get a bit nonsensical towards the end, but with the way they handle time travel there wasn't going to be a way around that. Also, as mentioned, just an all-around strong title. Clever battle mechanics, interesting setting, well-written story, Rosch, non-random battles, and... I think a minimum of grinding? It is experience/level based, so there is some, but combat generally holds up such that what is present is usually not a hassle, so far as I remember. I sh'play it again some time, I think.
Also while I'm here I'd like to mention Warcraft: The Gathering is in open beta and I have been enjoying it so far. One of these days I will figure out how to make a decent custom deck, but until then the basic decks seem dang reasonable.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - BRPXQZME - 01-24-2014
(01-24-2014, 06:58 PM)Godbot Wrote: »You also get a map of the entire timeline with a synopsis of the game so far, so you can check when and where you are, which timeline you're in, and what's going on. It's really spoiled me for other RPGs. I wish they all had features like that.Even something like Pokémon’s “Last time on DRAGON BALL Z” feature would be a godsend compared to what most RPGs offer. Maybe this isn’t a common problem, but sometimes I don’t get around to a game again for months....
I have heard that the timeline feature of the VN Virtue’s Last Reward is a must-see. Rather, it’s more than just a feature—it’s an integrated part of the game. And even if I’ve misunderstood... well, it just sounds like a great idea, right?
Haven’t played Radiant Historia yet, though. It’s on my bucket list. Some persons whose opinions I respect said it’s like a new Chrono Trigger. And of course, some others said it’s good, but there’s no way in hell you can call it that. Endorsements either way.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - MaxieSatan - 01-25-2014
It's really more like a new Chrono Cross, since it's mostly about jumping between timelines as opposed to jumping back and forth in time (though there's some of that, primarily if you missed a sidequest or you just want to replay some stuff).
Honestly it could have been implemented a bit better - there are a lot of moments where Stocke's all "hm, I get a Bad End on this timeline because I lack a certain skill, ally or piece of information! I SURE WONDER HOW I'LL GET THOSE" and then you just go to the other timeline for a while. Other moments are pretty solid though, and it's always fun deliberately getting the bad ends just to see how they turn out.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - weirdee - 01-25-2014
actually, sometimes you have to make some ridiculous leaps in order to make causality cry, although I think that only happens once, really
also, in order to complete the game for reals, you have to see everything on the timeline anyway, although most of the time, you'd be doing it because the postmortem chewing out is sometimes unintentionally entertaining and it'd be a shame to miss out
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - MaxieSatan - 01-25-2014
(01-25-2014, 01:46 AM)weirdee Wrote: »also, in order to complete the game for reals, you have to see everything on the timeline anyway, although most of the time, you'd be doing it because the postmortem chewing out is sometimes unintentionally entertaining and it'd be a shame to miss out
Wait do you mean for 100% or do you mean there's a super-secret Extra Gold Platinum Ending, because frankly the first Golden Ending was obscure enough. Gosh darn romantic subplots...
I know it sounds like I'm tearing this game apart but I really like it okay. The gameplay is super great and the characters are rad.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - BRPXQZME - 01-25-2014
I actually noticed that! (about a year ago where I was restarting it over and over to inspect the port and translation quality; didn’t really pay it much mind at release, where I got to play it several times as a store demo)
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Godbot - 01-25-2014
(01-24-2014, 10:06 PM)BRPXQZME Wrote: »Haven’t played Radiant Historia yet, though. It’s on my bucket list. Some persons whose opinions I respect said it’s like a new Chrono Trigger. And of course, some others said it’s good, but there’s no way in hell you can call it that. Endorsements either way.
Even before I read you say this, I'd been describing it as "someone played Chrono Trigger and thought, 'that was good, but it just wasn't complicated enough.'"
(01-24-2014, 07:47 PM)Not The Author Wrote: »and... I think a minimum of grinding?
See, that's one of my few complaints. You're right, you can stay leveled properly by just not avoiding too many battles, like in Chrono Trigger. But if you spend a lot of time in an alternate timeline, the party members who you have in that timeline level up, while the others stay behind. I just got back from a long stint in the Standard History, and Stocke's level 40 while Rosch, who was absent the whole time, is still level 28. I like how fluid your party is, but I think I'd like it if characters who weren't in your party still got a share of your experience, or something like that.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - weirdee - 01-25-2014
may have to work in a bunch of extra levels to defeat that ridiculous optional boss though
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - MaxieSatan - 01-26-2014
Uggggh, Amazing Mirror was okay at best. It was great in theory, but confusing navigation (made worse by all the damn one-way doors and the backtracking that came with that) and the weird implementation of the four-Kirbies thing dragged it down.
Fuck that big inhale-me-block in the lava zone, that thing's literally impossible to move without three friends because of the loser AI.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - BRPXQZME - 01-26-2014
Someone called for a loser Al?
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - TickTickTockTock - 01-26-2014
I'll agree on Amazing Mirror
fun game but like
too many mirrors x__x
Also having integrated coop multiplayer on GBA is a little, uhh, unique
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Godbot - 01-26-2014
I really liked the idea of making Kirby difficult by making it into a metroidvania with lots of secret doors and alternative routes, but I've also never managed to beat it, because you can't progress without finding all the secret doors and alternative routes.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - weirdee - 01-27-2014
for the most part, i was okay with the ridiculous doors because at least there was a map for everything
i recall having some difficulty with the big blocks but i probably got past it with some sort of trick up my sleeve
now, the timed underground hallway you have only one chance to do with wheelie before resetting the entire room and trying again, that one was sort of ridiculous
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - TickTickTockTock - 01-27-2014
I mean, I did beat Amazing Mirror in the end, even the block parts and stuff
but the one-way portal doors were still damn annoying and resulted in a ton of replaying the same level to find the right door by trial and error
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Nopad - 02-01-2014
I ended up 100%ing Amazing Mirror, which involved going through every single door in every direction, and looking closely at the map to see where there might be more content. It was fairly fun trying to figure out what to do to reach everything, but not really an experience exactly suited to Kirby. (Ultimately, 100%ing the game didn't require very much more than beating it.) Anyway, yeah, I'd say the game was flawed but pretty fun overall. For the record, I played on the 3DS Virtual Console, which didn't have access to the multiplayer.
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - weirdee - 02-01-2014
the actual sequel to yoshi's island was pretty mediocre though, so here's hoping the next one will do better
btw, i still can't believe that the people in charge of the gba port didn't actually bother to notice that the screen ratio was too different from a tv to see many of the area hazards in time to react to them and didn't adjust the size to compensate
there I posted about it are you happy now - Norivia - 02-02-2014
A few times over the last year or two I've come across a game that's been around since the 80s and that I find utterly fascinating, but I'm still not sure I want to actually play. That game is Core War.
It's a programming game, where you and your opponent write programs, or Warriors, and the programs fight each other. Not as in "if the enemy does x then attack with y" though. You write programs in Redcode, a purpose-built assembly language, using standard assembly type opcodes-- add, move, jump, and etc. Very low level, very close to the hardware. Then, the programs are loaded up into the game's memory, and the programs are run-- changing the memory around them, rewriting each others' programs! The idea of the game just seems so satisfying, so creative!
To be a little more accurate, and technical, about the game (or just read it from someone who actually knows what they're talking about): each player's code is loaded into a memory space of something like 8000 instructions, and then each warrior executes one instruction at a time. The goal is to overwrite the opponent's instructions to make them execute an illegal command, usually by executing a data command (data instructions signify that the memory location is ONLY for holding information-- a number -- and thus should never be actually executed).
The game's even built up something of a rock-paper-scissors system, with bombers (rocks), scanners (scissors), and replicators (papers). Of course there are hybrids and such, and programs that take different strategies, but these seem to be the baselines. There's also lots of 'genetic' warriors, where people use programs to evolve the warriors through battles-- not quite pokemon, but more, "make a change, and if it gives you a better win rate, keep it, otherwise discard it". It seems like such an odd metagame, in that the game's rules are basically entirely based around how functional of a language Redcode is.
I find Core War neat for its history as well-- made in 1984 originally, with the last widely-accepted rules update in '94. It's been another whole 20 years since then without much change, but it's cool to see how times have changed. In the original article by A.K. Dewdney (the creator), he talks about how assembly languages like Redcode are different than sophisticated programs like Fortran, Pascal, and BASIC (this is the part where you laugh). The community seems pretty small at this point, but it's made rounds on the internet enough in the past that my dad had heard about the game long ago (but never got around to playing it), just as I did recently.
There are still some king-of-the-hills running where you email your program to the server email address, and they run your program against all the programs on the hill, and if your program beats enough of them it boots the lowest spot. I wonder what games that are new currently will still be played 30 years down the road... Starcraft if anything, I'd bet.
So um. Yeah. Anyone heard of/played Core War? It seems like an interesting study in game design if nothing else as is probably mentioned in this gamasutra article that I've only briefly skimmed. Despite its simplicity, something about this game tickles my imagination, evoking 'hacking and cyberspace' in the same way that wind waker and megaman legends make me contemplate ancient ruins, endless skies, and A World Covered By Endless Water . . .
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Stij - 02-02-2014
Core War looks fascinating, though I don't really want to learn a programming language just to play a game tbh. I do think extremely long-lived games are cool, though (see also: Nethack!).
RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Pick Yer Poison - 02-02-2014
Speaking as a CS major, this seems very much up my alley. I'll probably look into this; I'm having a lot of fun just reading the beginner's guide Norivia linked.