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Lucidstuck II - Printable Version

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RE: Lucidstuck II - Unnoticeable - 03-28-2022

>How far exactly can we go with a lie that is a half truth? for example which truths are enough to break everything if revealed to Derrick? Because we need to come up with something convincing, but if we have nothing that we know we can safely say without everything falling apart, it's safe to say that we are fucked.
>I was thinking of having Derrick's attention be grabbed by Alice's mental state. If we can make her say how helpless she feels and how much she needs Derrick and how much she'll help Derrick. It just might be enough to draw Derrick's attention away for the time being.
>Another idea would be revealing Sunshine to Derrick, though take this idea with a grain of salt
>Essentially, what sort of thing or topic do you know that captures Derrick's attention the most? If we can formulate a lie around that, then we can best direct him away from the truth


RE: Lucidstuck II - litten8 - 03-28-2022

>I think you should trust us to make the right decision. When have we ever made the wrong decision? Never, as far as I can remember. So I don't think you need to worry about us messing up. Though, I will say I am currently on side "tell Derrick what's going on".


RE: Lucidstuck II - intrepidPioneer - 03-29-2022

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1. We're good. (Proceed to tell a lie to Derrick)
2. ... You're wrong on this one. (Proceed to tell the truth to Derrick)
3. I have something. (topic)


RE: Lucidstuck II - amobiaman - 03-29-2022

3>

>There is the question of how willing you'd be to die for your brother? What happens if Derrick does kill Alice at another time by some tragic result of his newfound.. assertiveness? What happens to you if there is no Alice when the construct falls? What even happens to you and Alice if she lives to see the end?

>If you have no interest in shadows, that's fine. We'll proceed with helping everyone else with them, including construct Alice. We'll even spare you details on what Dark Asylums are, or what we've been calling "The Construct."

>If it's simply the things in the closet that you're afraid of derrick discovering, perhaps elaborating more on your... illness... would be a useful piece of truth to add to the lie. Also we are a bit confused on what exactly we're trying to lie about, and kind of need to know what we're trying to hide in order to hide it, especially if the evidence is in any way physical. Is moving whatever it is out of the closet a possibility? Derrick is getting curious in ways that are beyond our control. Can you guarantee that your word alone would prevent derrick from searching?

>Some of us also want to play another game...


RE: Lucidstuck II - Unnoticeable - 03-29-2022

>3

>What genre of video games do you play? What style of music do you like? I wanna get to know you a little bit better! ^u^

>Do you wanna have Bob paint you a painting akin to Bob Ross? For that matter, do you want Bob to dress up as Bob Ross? If not now, then possibly next time?


RE: Lucidstuck II - neferiusNexus - 03-29-2022

>3
It won't work, this isn't the Derrick you know talking to Alice. This is the sum of all his knowledge and from what we've glanced when he and Derrick spoke, he already knows everything, but it's keeping Derrick in the dark to protect him and this construct. Your interests align there.
One last attempt from me to try and get you to understand what the shadow is, and have you safely realise your own potential without dying. So... do you know how you can review your own memories like you review the construct, except inside your head, but sometimes when you try to follow your own thought process to figure out why you took a certain action, the conclusion you come to seems more like a lie you told yourself. Well, that is because you, and everyone's conscious mind is like a boat, floating in the middle of a vast sea. Sometimes calm, sometimes wrought by storms. The shadow is what lurks beneath the waves and actually pushes the boat from below while you try to steer from above. And when you're both pulling in opposite directions, as you can imagine, you're not really going anywhere. This, I think is why you've not had any success after so many iterations of the construct. You think the answer is more lies, but do you really want that, or are you just steering into the darkness because it's more familiar while the one below is trying to drag you into the light. If you think she is wrong, then it is her you need to convince, not us. And don't give us the "I don't have time" excuse. Time here is an illusion and you're in control of it. When the time comes that the storms will rock your boat to where it capsizes, she can push you back to the surface before that malevolent force can plop itself down in your place. So for your own sake and the mission you've worked so hard for, you need to try to contact her. Just sit with yourself in silence and listen. She should make herself known to you.


RE: Lucidstuck II - Fellow - 03-29-2022

>3
>Do you know why you can't control Alice yourself? You're having to use us as a proxy to get her to do what you want. It seems weird, she's not a person from outside the constuct like Lucia and Emily are, and you would think the person you'd have the most contol over would be yourself.

>If you're worried that Derrick will kill you for something you're justified in doing, if he finds out, and then go kill his friends who had nothing to do with it, why do you even like him? The person you're describing sounds kind of terrible.


RE: Lucidstuck II - ReedRGale - 03-29-2022

> At the risk of sounding like a concerned mom, I hope you're doing okay. It's easy to imagine things being rough considering all this change.

> We do add a lot of variables to your plans. But I suppose that is the nature of cooperation between equals.

> I personally understand not liking it. I've never been good at working with teams.

> I tend to always feel like I know best. And I have trouble when other people tell me I don't. Or when people tell me they think they know me better than myself.

> It feels as if this is your experience, too. Though, maybe I'm wrong.

> Still, it often pays to listen.

> Some of us do worry about you, from the place of 'do you need a hug?' Maybe Bob will do so for me?

> But from that same place, it feels like you don't see yourself as someone who people could like, if they knew you. And it feels sometimes that you don't really like you either. So you settle for being useful.

> Which seems sad. You're clever. You can be witty. You're ambitious when it comes to the things you care about. You trust yourself. You're creative. You know your priorities.

> This doesn't mean that you aren't without flaws. You're brittle and hate when things change on you. You're ruthless if something gets in your way. You have a serious temper. And you ignore anything that hurts you or bugs you inside.

> Especially that last one.

> This seems to manifest itself in places like Raziel, where you won't even be willing to let that aspect--whatever he represents--talk to you because that'd mean facing something within yourself you're not comfortable with. Or in your noting you don't have time to entertain the possibility of your Shadow.

> But it's fine to be all those things. It's fine to not be comfortable with yourself. Just like admitting you're depressed is the first step to managing depression, admitting you aren't comfortable with yourself is the first step to being comfortable with yourself.

> But it's that self-discomfort that it seems your reaction in regards to Derrick stems.

> It's why I'd prefer Alice not try to lie to Derrick, just admit she doesn't want to talk about it. Again, we have our right to secrets. Even among our closest friends.

> But, there also isn't really any reason to believe you, in regards to the consequences playing out as you say. Derrick does seem to have the potential to kill Alice and even you, true. But will he use it when he finds out? It's hard to say.

> What matters, I think, is that you believe that there's something about you--something you did or something about yourself--that you absolutely can't show to him (or to us or anyone that could ever interact with your brother) because you believe he'll go ballistic.

> That makes me sad because it devalues yourself.

> As a preface, I'd like to reiterate that I feel, personally, that as this is your secret, it's your place to decide when or when not to reveal it. These are my personal principals. I don't think you should lie about the situation, but it's your place to choice when you--or Alice by proxy--should open up.

> So, let's assume Derrick going absolutely ballistic is the worst case. And let's assume that Derrick taking it in stride and being happy that his sister told him the truth was the best case.

> In most situations, reality falls between the two. It seems as if the outcome would be similar to him getting upset in the dining room and not talking to Alice for awhile while he cools off. A bad outcome, but not the absolute worst.

> We could even move this further and say that he yells at Alice and doesn't want to forgive her for some time. Weeks, or months maybe.

> Maybe I'm wrong, but that just seems more probable. Granted, they aren't FUN or GOOD outcomes. But they seem more plausible given that we don't know what the nature of the truth is.

> What we do know is Derrick cares about you. There is a lot it seems he'd be willing to forgive for the person closest to him.

> But even then, your worth is greater than how your brother sees you.

> You've got friends. Lexii would probably take a bullet for you. Lucas could be closer if you let him in and you don't string him along--it'd be hard for him, but I think he'd be there for you even if you were clear that you weren't into him.

> You've got you, too.

> You're more than just Derrick.

> He's important, of course, and we're still on your side in that regard. We want a ending where everyone makes it out alive and, ideally, happy.

> But happy isn't always how we envision it.

> In any case, I've rambled far longer than I probably should. It might be some time before I have the opportunity to talk to you again. Or maybe not. Hard to say. Perhaps not even all of this will reach you. You are a busy person and I did indulge quite a bit here.

> But I hope you care about and value yourself more for the interaction. Some of us really care that you make it out of this better than you came into it.

> And I hope maybe you take some time to be more willing to know and appreciate yourself for who you are. Not by how much Derrick or anyone else defines you.


RE: Lucidstuck II - HayDay - 03-29-2022

>3 Is there anything you want to ask somebody if we managed to get contact with someone I.E. Nightmare, Emily, Lucia, Etc


RE: Lucidstuck II - HayDay - 04-12-2022

>2


RE: Lucidstuck II - intrepidPioneer - 04-16-2022

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RE: Lucidstuck II - Fellow - 04-16-2022

>The dark asylum is an alteration of a section of the dreamworld, originating from you, that amplifies your powers significantly. We know for sure that you're already in yours because Nightmare told us that you are. Your asylum is the reason the construct is possible in the first place.

>Dark asylums are closely related to shadows. Derrick's shadow has talked about giving him access to it, and Lucia entered hers when her shadow used it to teach her a lesson about independence. This is why she was suddenly able to use many of her powers without ira.

>But then, you're in your asylum even though you were previously unaware that your shadow existed. So what does that mean for you? We haven't comfirmed it, but it's quite possible that you're in your asylum because your shadow wants to teach you something, just like how it was with Lucia before.

>Garreth has what amounts to supernatural intuition, and he came to that same conclusion, that the construct was a lesson to you from yourself, without even knowing that dark asylums exist. He thought this was why you couldn't just kill Lucia to solve your problems.

>If you were to be more in touch with your shadow, or the lesson she wants you to learn, you would be better able to work with the construct.

>Your shadow is something you're deliberately not thinking about, an aspect of yourself that you're trying to supress. When lil mal appears, it's actually using your shadow to manipulate you. But you're not inviting lil mal by getting to know your shadow, it actually helps prevent its appearance.

>The reason we were so set on talking about your shadow here, besides not being able to do that in our last meeting, is because this situation with Derrick and your closet could possibly pertain to whatever aspect of yourself you're deliberately avoiding.

>If you want to get in touch with your shadow, you could try to take a moment to breathe and collect your thoughts, when we're done chattering at you. Failing that, Raziel might be able to tell you something, somehow. He can't talk, but he can still move, right? Maybe if you gave him a medium to express himself?

>One more option for trying to talk to your shadow: Since we know one 'rule' is that you can't kill Lucia to fix your problems, maybe you could have a talk with Lucia about why you wanted to do that in the first place. Carefully. Maybe she actually has some insights you haven't thought of.

[Don't mention to daydream that we met Nightmare. UE will know. Never mind we already said that earlier.]

>What about those two sides of you that you mentioned? The ones that want each other to die? Is one of them more 'other' to you? Is there something you'd name these sides of you?


RE: Lucidstuck II - HayDay - 04-16-2022

>You can do this daydream to fix all of your wrongs in life. YOU have to be the hero who has to face all their sins.
You must have the courage and willingness to take on all the guilt and regret to face your shadow


RE: Lucidstuck II - amobiaman - 04-16-2022

>Glad to see that you're more willing to speak on shadows. It's very easy to understand why you're scared, and you can't be blamed for that. While everyone is always a bit scared about the truth of themselves, it makes sense that someone who's whole persona is so wrapped up in the concept of lies would be so stubborn about it.

>Truthfully, there's not very much that we know about dark asylums, other than that they are manifestations of who you really are and what you really want deep down.

>Your asylum, the construct, seems to be a medium where you can have whatever you want if you weave the right lies. However it hasn't been going in your favor with all these other free agents running around inside it.

>I believe that we won't be able to help much beyond our own speculation. You really should just take a moment to find yourself.

>I know you seem to believe you know yourself, but you can't even speak Raziel. You say you feel like you're two halves that want the other dead! I think you know who you WANT to be, and are very afraid that's not who you actually are.

>That's okay too! Like the others say, the best way to begin knowing and accepting yourself is to confront these things that concern or scare you.

>Many of us would likely kill for the opportunity you have, to speak with your demons directly. I know I would. There's a lot a mind can hid from itself given the effort, time, and a motive.

>As for the construct being a "test" given by your shadow... that idea does sound rather plausible. Could be something to ask yourself. I too like to think you're trying to teach yourself how to cooperate.

>Your friend lexii on the outside is who brought us here. I like to think that she manifested us as a way to teach you cooperation as well.

>As a collection of faceless voices, there's nothing we can do to affect your world directly, only whisper in your thoughts, or on rare occasions speak directly.

>However with all of us and our own ideas, we often disagree. It's a pain to see some of our own ideas fail to influence you lot, and even more when our influence doesn't do what we deisred.

>Everything really would be so much easier if it went our own individual ways, but nobody can have that. Reality is cruel and disappointing. People can be confusing, stubborn, or unwilling to compromise.

>the best we can do, the best you can do, is to try and cooperate.

>Frankly, I'm very proud of you for coming along so far in such a long time. I know it was hard at first to accept us, but you did it.

>Take your time with this. Just relax, and when you're ready ask yourself questions, look deep down, as deep as you can go. Listen to anything you have to say. Do not try and rationalize your own answers until you can fully feel the responses. You might feel your two halves colliding, and you might feel scared, but that's okay. Feel it. Go through it and learn yourself.

>At the very end, we'll still be here on the other side to help you process.


RE: Lucidstuck II - ReedRGale - 04-16-2022

> I agree with the others.
> You're making such progress and we're very proud of you.
> We may not be able to directly help you face yourself, if that's what you choose to do, but we'll be there at the end.
> Whatever happens, you've got this.


RE: Lucidstuck II - intrepidPioneer - 04-16-2022

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RE: Lucidstuck II - ReedRGale - 04-16-2022

> If Raziel makes you feel less alone, if we make you feel less alone, we have to be gone.

> Get some distance.


RE: Lucidstuck II - amobiaman - 04-16-2022

>Ah, we forgot to mention. You need to be alone as you can be for this. Set raziel aside, have bob leave you alone, and find some distance from external influence. Us included. Try again, and give it some time.

>Face away from your table and companions if that helps.


RE: Lucidstuck II - Unnoticeable - 04-16-2022

>Stop distracting yourself. you need to be patient. don't talk to yourself, don't move yourself, just deep breathes, and have patience. your shadow will talk to you eventually.

>Have faith in yourself. We believe in you! ^w^


RE: Lucidstuck II - Fellow - 04-16-2022

>What if you made an illusion of yourself, and talked to that? Shadows aren't external, but you might be viewing her like that. I don't think this would work, but it's worth trying.

>Try to introspect. Think about how you've been trying to solve your problems all these iterations, and why you did it like that. Question your motives as best your can. Are there any unspoken assumptions?

>It may not help to have us around. Derrick needed to be alone to talk to his shadow, and even bambino counted as an audience.

>But then, Derrick still got help from his conjurations to figure this out, and you don't have that advantage. I don't suppose you could simulate what DT would tell you, if you asked him about this?

>This is a complete shot in the dark, but, did you conjure Raziel out of the box in your closet? Would he be able to speak, if you removed the tape?


RE: Lucidstuck II - HayDay - 04-16-2022

>You also have to be honest with yourself be comfortable while being yourself don't forget to be MATURE about how you handle this. If you are capable we don't want you to go ham on yourself and make the shadow throw you back out


RE: Lucidstuck II - intrepidPioneer - 04-18-2022

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Daydream waves her hand and Bob and all her furniture fades away.

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Suddenly Daydream's own environment is dulled to black. A silhouette appears directly in front of her...

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1. Lie to Derrick (Side with Daydream)
2. Tell Derrick the truth (Side with ??? )


RE: Lucidstuck II - HayDay - 04-18-2022

>1 She may have done some fucked up things but we need her alive. She needs to be alive to guarantee the safety of derrick because she has always loved him no matter what.


RE: Lucidstuck II - litten8 - 04-18-2022

> 1 Nope nope nope! However insane Alice is, that thing is far worse, and it wants us to tell the truth, and it doesn't seem sane enough to try reverse psychology, so we definitely need to lie, at least for now. We really should find some way to make it so we don't have to lie in the future though.


RE: Lucidstuck II - ReedRGale - 04-18-2022

Hmm... I guess we're forced into the binary. Unfortunately people can't get better if they're dead. That's sad. All considered, we'll have to lie to Derrick. Let's review what Alice said before this:

Derrick: I'm going to speak to the Sister in you that cares about me.
Derrick: That loves me. And wants to show it.
Derrick: What is in the box?
Alice: ...... It's a... Dead kitten.
Derrick: ....... Why?
Alice: You wouldn't understand. It's part of my sickness.
Derrick: Finally... Is this absolutely all you were trying to hide from me?
Derrick: This is it, Sister.
Derrick: You only get one chance.
Alice: ......

It seems a half-truth would be the best here.

> 1. Explain that you're sick. You killed the kitten and that it didn't hurt you. That you liked it. That you keep it because you don't like that about yourself. You keep a reminder for yourself so you know what you can do if you don't keep yourself in check. That you're sure that no one, not even he can accept you if he knows your heartlessness.

This reveals something about Alice--her self-hatred and cruelty--so she's revealing something about herself, but is also probably not what is exactly being hidden. Both requirements are fulfilled.