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+--- Thread: Mystery Box (/showthread.php?tid=4279)
RE: Mystery Box - Ten11 - 04-27-2019
(04-27-2019, 03:47 AM)ShiningKatana Wrote: »Alright, ima b0uta get the m0st meta ever. s0 were a gr0up 0f pe0ple talking t0 y0u right? well we see y0u thr0ugh a f0rum 0n a website, but the thing is, we, 0ut here, are part 0f a game. And g0d is playing tht game. but g0d is acctually just being c0ntr0lled by a player 0f THAT game wh0 has becme self aware that THEY are in a game talking t0 reality. s0.... were just 0ne big mini game. C0nfused? I am t0 cause idk what i even said. As f0r my real questi0n, um.... uh.... hm.no meta!!! pls
Any tips 0n fighting baddies?
So, just checking, are you different from the person we talked to before we were bound to Flannery? They sure made the Crawl out to be a lot worse than this. I thought it was going to be a giant underground dungeon or labyrinth or something, not just a city.
Anyway I feel like it probably won't be very hard to find to find this person. By the sounds of it the kind of stories being written here place lots of significance on the main character and have them do cool and important things. People like that tend to stand out.
Actually, was that storybook thing just part of the analogy, or is it actually like theres a narrative? Hopefully this isn't too meta a question, it's just that this becomes a lot easier if theres a narrative convention in place, if we can manipulate it. There are stories that have their main characters fail as well as succeed.
RE: Mystery Box - Numbers - 04-27-2019
(04-27-2019, 08:58 AM)Ten11 Wrote: »Seconding no meta.(04-27-2019, 03:47 AM)ShiningKatana Wrote: »Alright, ima b0uta get the m0st meta ever. s0 were a gr0up 0f pe0ple talking t0 y0u right? well we see y0u thr0ugh a f0rum 0n a website, but the thing is, we, 0ut here, are part 0f a game. And g0d is playing tht game. but g0d is acctually just being c0ntr0lled by a player 0f THAT game wh0 has becme self aware that THEY are in a game talking t0 reality. s0.... were just 0ne big mini game. C0nfused? I am t0 cause idk what i even said. As f0r my real questi0n, um.... uh.... hm.no meta!!! pls
Any tips 0n fighting baddies?
Now, what'll happen to the World Protag once they are Banished From This Mortal Coil? Will they like, zoop off into some other World Protag's Protagery Worldery? Or will they just be erased from all of existence? It's fine if this is too much abstraction, I can stand not knowing.
RE: Mystery Box - Arcanuse - 04-27-2019
...
Objective confirmed.
Previous modus operandi: Bumble Aimlessly.
Current modus operandi: Focused Bumbling.
...
Objective:Termination can be achieved much faster if ethical restraints were loosened.
'Bootz' is, currently, attempting to be a decent individual as they bumble throughout the crawl.
While Chorus involvement may have planted the seed for this behavior, it appears the pawn has taken it with full stride.
By continuing this path either intentionally or through willful ignorance, the difficulty of the task is bound to rise.
That is, the pawn will take longer, unnecessarily difficult options over inflicting harm.
Eventually, if this remains unchecked, there is a nonzero chance the pawn will refuse to terminate the target.
...
However, while the loosening of ethical restraints would be beneficial for accomplishing the task, it would do so at making this 'story' a worse place to live for the current/future inhabitants.
It would be... Unpleasant, to understate it severely.
Thoughts?
...
Question.
What is the acceptable degree of damage/casualties on the future warpath?
This is a concern regardless of ethical restraints. Less is presumed better, but perhaps there was something more specific in mind?
...
Further question.
Is the 'protagonist' the core of the 'story', or merely the focus?
E.G., will there be consequences of terminating the 'protagonist' for the other 'readers'?
RE: Mystery Box - Schazer - 04-27-2019
If we're going to stick to avoiding violence, there's always the option of building a structure within this Crawl that's better for everyone, not just the protagonist.
Regardless of if we actually succeed or not in our task to kill the protagonist, until we find said protagonist I think building up better supports and environments for the other inhabitants is better than burning everything down on our path to the top?
RE: Mystery Box - Thalia V1 - 04-27-2019
oh god, we’re a hitman now basically? what happens to the main character after they die?
RE: Mystery Box - Smurfton - 04-27-2019
Will we have a way of confirming that we found the tyrant?
Can we assume that everything, even your statues, exists to serve the needs of the main character and the story book? For example, does the existence of Creeps point to the tyrant being some sort of adventurer type, instead of someone playing mayor or tycoon?
RE: Mystery Box - gloomyMoron - 04-27-2019
Quote:... the librarian took the rogue author's Pen away forever, and kicked her out of the library. So at least new stories wouldn't be written.
Uhhh... just to be clear... you're not implying that they purge Miss Tery Box's Mind, are you? Because... that's how it reads.
Also, you want us to be the villain but that way often leads to death, unless we switch the narrative. Gotta turn this into a story where the "main character" is a tragic hero with flaws who dies at the end, like a certain playwright might. Or, flip that script and turn it into a story where the protagonist is actually the antagonist that gets their comeuppance. I mean, stories are filled with the fall of tyrants... Some of whom happened to be the main character.
I think Miss Tery Box had... good intentions with what she did though. Obviously, non-ideal implementation... but this Higher-Thought-Process might understand the why though, and... not necessarily disagree. Or maybe its just the Slimerat Poison.
RE: Mystery Box - CherryPetrichor - 04-27-2019
(04-27-2019, 01:33 AM)Akumu Wrote: »What happens to Bigg City and all its other inhabitants after that?
What happens to us after that?
RE: Mystery Box - Smurfton - 04-28-2019
Wait, hang on, weren't you telling us to retrieve the Mystery Box before?
RE: Mystery Box - a52 - 04-28-2019
how can we obtain large quantities of illicit drugs for low, low prices
RE: Mystery Box - Ubersketch - 04-28-2019
Wait aren't we supposed to be the main character? After are we were controlling the pawn and why should we kill them anyways? It's not their fault they are at the center of everything that happens to them.
RE: Mystery Box - kilozombie - 04-28-2019
At the same time, it's morally pretty Bad to not realize you're in a world that favors you and hurts everyone else, or (even worse) to realize it and still be okay with it.
But that all relies on the presumption that the Main Character is still in a position of power at this point.
RE: Mystery Box - Sunspider - 05-02-2019
![[Image: questions.png]](https://solifuge.github.io/mysterybox/4/questions.png)
(04-27-2019, 01:37 AM)kilozombie Wrote: »I got questions in ascending order of 'self awareness'.
Great. I might have answers.
(04-27-2019, 01:37 AM)kilozombie Wrote: »Are we going to cause harm to Walter, going down the path we're currently going down?
What, you think I can see the future, or read your mind? You'd have to tell me what else you're planning to put the poor guy through first, Miss Bootz...
(04-27-2019, 03:47 AM)ShiningKatana Wrote: »Any tips 0n fighting baddies?
Sure. Hit Them, and Don't Get Hit.
If you want advice for you in particular, I'd say... fight smart, not hard. Don't let 'em see you coming. Hit 'em where it hurts the most. And if you can't end it all at once, make tracks before you get hit back.
Same advice, really. Just wordier.
(04-27-2019, 08:58 AM)Ten11 Wrote: »So, just checking, are you different from the person we talked to before we were bound to Flannery? They sure made the Crawl out to be a lot worse than this. I thought it was going to be a giant underground dungeon or labyrinth or something, not just a city.
Just 'cause I'm an Idol right now doesn't mean I'm not the same old Elpis the Daemon as I was earlier.
And even if it isn't a grimy underground dungeon or something, that doesn't mean Bigg City isn't a labyrinth full of monsters and danger. Sure, a different Storyteller might've taken it more literally, or been a little more clichéd about it. But I think that was another thing folks liked about Crawls made by Miss Box.
She was always really good at being Creative, within her Constraints...
(04-27-2019, 08:58 AM)Ten11 Wrote: »Actually, was that storybook thing just part of the analogy, or is it actually like theres a narrative?
See, this is the trouble. I'm trying to say something I'm... fundamentally incapable of flat-out telling you, as a Daemon. So I have to dance around it using metaphor and all that, and hope you get enough of what I'm trying to say, without getting confused by it.
A Crawl isn't literally a literary work or something. But it does involve someone we call a Storyteller, who was like the "author" responsible for "writing" it. And in the same way, the "main character" isn't literally the protagonist of a book either... they're someone we out here formally call a Mystery Master.
You can still call them the Tyrant, or king, or main character. Whatever works for you. They're all accurate, in their own way. But if you want a name for this particular Mystery Master... we call them "The Invisible Hand."
![[Image: hand.png]](https://solifuge.github.io/mysterybox/4/hand.png)
Lucity said they got that name since no Chorus had lasted long enough to see who was pulling the strings in this Crawl. There's also apparently a joke to it too. They couldn't explain it to me, for the same reason I can't explain some stuff to you. But apparently it was clever, because they were real pleased with theirself about that one.
(04-27-2019, 02:44 AM)☆ C.H.W.O.K.A ☆ Wrote: »how do we merc the tyrant if the whole universe is tilted in their favor
Ultimately that's up to you to figure out. But lemme clarify two things.
First, this Crawl ain't necessarily tilted 100% in your target's favor, so much as it was created to "facilitate their story," so to speak. The Storyteller who was responsible did tend to write these as a bit of a Personal Power Fantasy... so by now, it's safe to assume this Mystery Master will be powerful, respected, and influential here. But that's not to say they're untouchable.
Secondly, if things were still being actively written for your Tyrant, we would basically be powerless here... but with the death of the author, all that's left are the characters, the setting, and what we all make of it. The Storyteller may have tipped the odds in your target's favor to begin with... but she's not around to enforce that imbalance anymore.
Uh... so yeah. Bigg City was originally built to benefit it's Mystery Master, The Invisible Hand, but nothing says it has to keep doing that. And they'll probably be tough to fight, once you find them... but fate itself isn't quite stacked in their favor anymore. It's more like, you know... the existing systems and power structures here in Bigg City were tailored to guide them into a Position of Great Power. And, uh... to entrench them in that power once they took it.
Otherwise they're, uh... they're just as mortal and vulnerable as anyone else.
(04-27-2019, 10:32 AM)Arcanuse Wrote: »Question.
What is the acceptable degree of damage/casualties on the future warpath?
This is a concern regardless of ethical restraints. Less is presumed better, but perhaps there was something more specific in mind?
Woah, woah there! Calling our Job a warpath is definitely missing the point, kid.
I'm not saying it's a pretty road. Once Lucity found out that Miss Box went rogue, and her Crawls were trapping folks, there was no choice but to get rid of her. It was the only way to control the damage. I really, really hate that it had to be done. Believe me. But it was all we could do to stop people from being put in places designed to hurt them, and prop someone else up.
Even so, that was only half a solution. With the Storyteller gone, and the Mystery Masters all thankfully unaware of who and what they are... that still leaves us with unfinished Crawls full of trapped people, with no "author" left to finish the story.
There's only one safe way we can close the book on places like Bigg City, and get everyone out. And that's to send people like you in, so you can kill Mystery Masters like The Invisible Hand, and end those stories for everyone stuck in 'em.
This was always about Minimizing Harm to people. At the end of the day, you gotta do whatever you gotta do, to get the Job done. But... just don't forget that these people are still people. Even the one you gotta kill, for everybody else's sake.
No matter what you gotta do while you're in here... I hope you Don't Lose Sight of That.
(04-27-2019, 01:37 AM)kilozombie Wrote: »Does Walter know a lick of any of this? Should he be involved at all?
Sure hope he doesn't. If he starts Questioning His Reality the way you do... that could cost us our only shot at fixing things.
(04-27-2019, 01:46 AM)Wheat Wrote: »I think it'd be smart if some sort of illuminati in bigg city were set up where pawns were allowed limited self-awareness, to pass on the work of the group to newer pawns.
It's a good idea in theory, but... like I was about to say...
The Storyteller was more or less All-Powerful within her Crawls, but she's obviously gone now. Which means that The Invisible Hand is now the most powerful force here in Bigg City. More than me, more than you, and more than your Pawn, and her Admittedly Very Cool Knife-Mittens.
The only real advantage you and I have, Miss Bootz, is that we know what they are, but they don't. Not knowing that this Reality revolves around them is the only thing keeping the Mystery Master from Taking The Authorial Reins for theirself. A Sufficiently Self-Aware Protagonist, with no author to reign them in, could reshape their own story however they wanted. And you, and Walter, and everyone else in here would be completely at their mercy. At that point, There'd Be Nothing You or I Could Do to stop them, and free the people trapped in their reality.
That's why you can't tell anyone else in there about the nature of the Crawl. You shouldn't even let your Pawn work it out. The risk of The Invisible Hand figuring out what they really are before we can stop them is Too Dang High.
(04-27-2019, 11:41 AM)Schazer Wrote: »If we're going to stick to avoiding violence, there's always the option of building a structure within this Crawl that's better for everyone, not just the protagonist.
Well, sure, you can always try to leave a situation better than it was when you found it, and all that. Not doing harm when you don't gotta is something I'd definitely encourage too. Just... don't lose sight of What You're There For.
I mean, if you've got Leaky Pipes all over the house, you could get stuck mopping up spills and setting out buckets forever. Don't get caught up with the small stuff, when there's a valve in the place that can Shut Off The Water, and spare everyone more grief.
(04-27-2019, 01:37 AM)kilozombie Wrote: »What is Flannery Bootz thinking right now?
Right now? Apparently she'd be wondering what she was thinking, if she was Conscious. On account of you and your Pawn being parts of the same whole, yeah?
But, since that part of you isn't Conscious Enough to have thoughts at present, she's not thinking anything. All that's left is the bit that's having this little Q&A Session with me. One that the other part of you won't remember when you're awake again. So you'll have to remember it for her.
Sorry if the whole Pawn/Chorus Duality thing is confusing, Miss Bootz. Another good reason not to talk about it too much.
(04-27-2019, 03:10 AM)Reecer6 Wrote: »>If I am the chorus, who are my verses? Or my bridge? I guess I don't need a bridge but they're really cool to have.
Oh. That's, uh... that's a good question. I don't really get that terminology either.
(04-27-2019, 01:37 AM)kilozombie Wrote: »In this context, it seems like Flannery Bootz is our 'main character'. Is that because of our influence and/or our view?
I mean, folks always think of themselves as the protagonist of a story. Everybody's kinda selfish like that, far as I've found. One of those things we just gotta grapple with, I guess.
(04-28-2019, 10:53 PM)Ubersketch Wrote: »Wait aren't we supposed to be the main character? After all we were controlling the pawn and why should we kill them anyways?
You're just one Pawn, in a city full of them. And your Pawn isn't the "main character" in the metaphor either. She's... huh. I guess she'd be more like your Self-Insert?
Anyway, I'm not asking you to... you're definitely not your own target, okay? We can be sure of that much. The "main character," whoever they are, was the first person in this Crawl. They were here long before you or anybody else started showing up in Their Little World.
(04-27-2019, 10:32 AM)Arcanuse Wrote: »Is the 'protagonist' the core of the 'story', or merely the focus?
E.G., will there be consequences of terminating the 'protagonist' for the other 'readers'?
The Consequence is that the book finally gets closed, and everybody has to stop reading it.
But if the book's Bad For Them, and they're stuck with it? If they can't check out a new one from the library until we end this one? Well, far as I can see... that ain't much of a Consequence at all, now is it?
(04-27-2019, 01:37 AM)kilozombie Wrote: »Where do people go when they're 'freed' from Bigg City?
I can't really say where Pawns go, when they're not in The Crawl. Mostly because I don't know. Like you, I'm somewhere outside, looking in. I've got no idea who or what is further out than us, apart from Lucity.
And what little I do know... well, I can't say for other reasons. But what I can say is that, once we take Bigg City and it's Master out of the picture, the people will be safe. And wherever they go, they'll be better off than they are in there.
(04-27-2019, 08:07 PM)CherryPetrichor Wrote: »What happens to us after that?
What happens to folks like you and me, once Bigg City is done with us? That's a hell of a question. And I know I already told you not to stare into That Particular Abyss, on account of what I've seen that do to folks like us... but, to be honest?
I wish I knew, kid.
More than just about anything else, that's something I really wish I knew.
...
Anyway, I'm getting the sense that this Horned Statue is about to run out of juice... so we oughta wrap this Q&A Session up. Better to save a bit for your Conscious Self, whenever she wakes up, eh?
Speaking of... it'll probably be easier if I tell you what sort of Boons I can grant your Pawn now, so you have time to think it over.
![[Image: options.png]](https://solifuge.github.io/mysterybox/4/options.png)
First, we can turn one of your Pawn's Experiences into a new Skill she can use. Something like Doppelmancy, or Lucky Break. You'll have to pick which Experience you want to spend, and figure out what Lesson you've learned from it... after that, I'll handle the rest.
Alternatively, if you're willing to offer me two Items, I can Fuse them into something new. You'll need to put them both inside a Container, and leave your offering at the foot of this Idol. It might be a bit until I can get the Fused Item back to you, but I will.
Thirdly, we can make a Second Pawn for you. Someone else you can, uh... be, from time to time. Of course, Being Somebody Else would leave your current self without your guidance, which is risky. You might wanna be sure you can trust yourself like that first... or at least be sure you leave her somewhere she can't get into trouble until you decide to Be Her again. And, like when we made your first Pawn, you'd need to offer me an Item in a Container. And we'd need to settle on their Name, Class and Qualifications.
Lastly, if you expect you'll have more questions later, I've got another idea. I can shut this Idol down now, and use the leftover power in it to give your Pawn a new Skill. Something that'll let you consult me at any time, wherever you are, when you want the sorts of answers or insights someone like me can provide. There'd only be so much juice, so you could only do that a limited number of times... but I could offer you Knowhow About Bigg City that you might not be able to get, otherwise.
Whatever you choose, you'll have to wait until after you Wake Up, but I can start preparing things now, at least.
So, what do you think? Do you want your Pawn to gain a New Skill, combine two things into a Fused Item, make a Second Pawn, or save the Idol's power so you can Keep a Daemon on Retainer?
>
RE: Mystery Box - ☆ C.H.W.O.K.A ☆ - 05-02-2019
i think a second pawn is the worst way to go, we can not trust flannery by herself. let's go for a skill to pay the bill
RE: Mystery Box - Schazer - 05-02-2019
Yeah a new skill would be my preference. It has to relate to our learning experience of "Failed to magically copy a door to make a barricade, instead opening a hole where there wasn't one."
Why not door-pullmancy? The power to will doors, holes, and other egresses from Elsewhere.
RE: Mystery Box - Ten11 - 05-02-2019
Dang this is a pretty hard choice. I think I want to go with the 4th option, keeping open a line for communication.
Also, in more general goal-oriented terms, what if in order to get to this Mystery Master, we tried, well, a civic approach? What I mean is, we had a slight run-in with the law before, but that doesn't mean we have to be a criminal from now on. They didnt get our name or appearance. We could totally try to work within the system in order to find this guy. These Creeps, for example. I imagine that fighting them is a relatively important job, like a firefighter, and our Pawn is likely more equipped to do so than the average citizen. We could take up a job and use our position to gather information about higher-up people who might be the Mystery Master. We'd probably need to keep our duplication power a secret though.
I mean we could also be a criminal, avoiding officers of the law and moving through the city's underground. That has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Just saying there's a choice here, we aren't locked in by our previous actions.
RE: Mystery Box - FlanDab - 05-02-2019
Hmmm... I was rather silent, a bit asleep you see.
I think it's best we take a new skill. Door-pullamancy sounds interesting, but I'm not sinking my gloves down it. I'm thinking invent-o-mancy. The ability to invent new things from old things.
RE: Mystery Box - kilozombie - 05-02-2019
Not a fan of keeping the line of communique always open. We will probably be a pester and/or misinterpret something you say and then lead ourselves into some catastrophic results. Agreed on not having a new pawn, either-- maybe far in the future when we need it, but right now Flannery is a handful alone.
Let's learn Door Pull-O-Mancy! Or something of that ilk.
![[Image: km6gmVo.png]](https://i.imgur.com/km6gmVo.png)
RE: Mystery Box - Kaynato - 05-02-2019
A magic of doors would fit our burglar quite well. Let's go with that for a skill!
RE: Mystery Box - ShiningKatana - 05-02-2019
oooh what if we can like do doormancy and have a fast travel sorta dealio?
RE: Mystery Box - Sunspider - 05-02-2019
Author's Note: To create a New Skill, you don't decide the skill for yourself. Instead, the skill you gain is based on the combination of the Experience you had, and the Lesson you learned. For example, say you wanted to make a skill based on a time you failed at diplomacy...
[box]• Experience: Tried to charm someone into doing something for you, but ended up insulting them instead.[/box]
...along with that, you'd suggest a Lesson that experience taught you, now that you've had time to reflect on it:
[box]• Lesson: People are just as easy to manipulate when they're mad. You just have to redirect their anger[/box]
...then, you'd offer those two to the Horned Statue, which will pick a fitting skill for that Experience/Lesson Combo. In that case, you'd probably gain something based on Taunting people, Manipulation, or Fast-Talking.
RE: Mystery Box - CherryPetrichor - 05-02-2019
I vote Keep a Daemon on Retainer. Might come in useful
RE: Mystery Box - Arcanuse - 05-02-2019
...
Request/Clarification acknowledged.
Will attempt in future to determine less-destructive options and/or means to achieve the current goal.
Memory/lesson for skill chosen accordingly:
Memory: 'Flannery Bootz' was attacked and injured by creeps; in spite of this it did not dissuade flannery from attempting peaceful resolution to conflict, despite fighting them being both easier(?) and justified.
Lesson: 'Flannery Bootz' determination towards peaceful outcomes has only solidified, but alongside this comes the wisdom that one does not have to take hostilities freely. Defend, counter, dodge, avoiding damage isn't always possible, but when it is it makes peaceful resolution all the easier.
...
One more question.
In the event another Daemon was encountered, what should be expected? Assistance? Problems? Competition?
RE: Negotiations heat up, and sacrifices are made in the Mystery Box - Smurfton - 05-03-2019
I couldn't remember exactly what our experiences and items were, so here's the most recent character info.
![[Image: 0w1g4.png]](https://solifuge.github.io/mysterybox/stat/flannery/0w1g4.png)
Experience: Lost your cool, and failed to swindle money out of Cam the Dumpster Merchant.
Lesson: Cons work better when the mark is leading the conversation in the direction we want it to go.
RE: Mystery Box - Sunspider - 05-04-2019
![[Image: after.png]](https://solifuge.github.io/mysterybox/4/after.png)
(05-02-2019, 08:11 PM)Arcanuse Wrote: »In the event another Daemon was encountered, what should be expected? Assistance? Problems? Competition?
Buddy, I already said. I'm One of a Kind. You, me, The Invisible Hand... even The Mystery Box. Each of us are, or were, the only thing like us in this Entire World.
Our lost Storyteller was made to create.
The Daemon beside her, to facilitate.
The Master came down here to live, and to play.
...and if they get rowdy?
You take them away.
And even if there was another Entity like you or me around, remember... our Purpose is to serve the good of the People here, in whatever ways we can. We don't always do a great job of it, sure... but the only one who ever fully turned against her Purpose is gone now.
So, uh... don't worry too much. Just focus on finding The Invisible Hand.
Okay, it uh...
It sounds like you're conflicted still. Maybe a little confused about how this stuff works, even? Don't stress about it... the Rules of these things have always been hard for me to explain. But, it looks safe to say you're against making a Second Pawn, or a Fused Item at least. I'm not sure I can do exactly what you're hoping for... but I'll keep these ideas in mind, for whatever Boon your Pawn ends up asking for.
Once she's done sleeping off that Green Slime Poisoning, anyway.
![[Image: dark.png]](https://solifuge.github.io/mysterybox/4/dark.png)
Until then, Miss Bootz... I probably oughta shut this Idol down. No sense idling it here, and running out the energy, eh?
![[Image: darker.png]](https://solifuge.github.io/mysterybox/4/darker.png)
I'll see the Other You, on the other side.
![[Image: black.png]](https://solifuge.github.io/mysterybox/0/black.png)