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+---- Thread: Murder By The Book - Ender's Game (/showthread.php?tid=812)
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Schazer - 06-13-2014
So, uh
(06-12-2014, 12:40 PM)Palamedes Wrote: »Checked with Fogel already and I can't knowingly lynch the lovers. Doing so results in a loss for me.
Because, well
(06-12-2014, 04:08 PM)Dragon Fogel Wrote: »No Lynch - 1 (Schazer)
Schazer - 1 (Palamedes)
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Palamedes - 06-13-2014
(06-12-2014, 12:40 PM)Palamedes Wrote: »Checked with Fogel already and I can't knowingly lynch the lovers. Doing so results in a loss for me.
(06-12-2014, 12:40 PM)Palamedes Wrote: »I can't.. lynch the lovers. Doing so results in a loss for me.
(06-12-2014, 12:40 PM)Palamedes Wrote: »I... lynch the lovers... loss for me.
(06-12-2014, 12:40 PM)Palamedes Wrote: »If I lynch the lovers, I die.
You are strangely alive for what you're saying to be relevant?
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Schazer - 06-13-2014
All I'm saying is:
-You've been haranguing my ass for days now trying to get me lynched
-If the lovers are lynched, you lose/die/whatever
The above two don't compute.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Palamedes - 06-13-2014
Well you and Sotek won't vote you, six people left.
Math points to three people who could have hypothetically voted for you, one who has been all over me all day, so really only two (since voting with me for no reason would be super sketchy), and I've been pseudo around enough to notice a random wagon building and jump off quickly, plus there's you and Sotek to drop the lover bomb which would get off the one townie.
I mean I could ask you why you were pushing yourself as scum? I was hoping Pilot or seedy would jump on and there'd be an easy direction to go next.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Schazer - 06-13-2014
I mean I could ask first why you've been pushing me as scum for at least half the game?
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Schazer - 06-13-2014
Seriously though my whole scumploy was to see if you'd act like an honest 3rd-P who was playing to win, see that you could joint with scum today, and out the lovers so "we" could shoot the last townie if "we" didn't manage to convince town they officially fucked.
If I had been scum, and you had been third party, the options were Othertown lynch or a hung vote leading to No Lynch. Without your/scum support, there would have not been enough town to hammer anybody you didn't want to, but obviously you+2scum can't hammer town either so it becomes no lynch, scum shoot Othertown N9 (who you outed via loverclaim D9 because you don't want the risk of lovers getting shot) and if that doesn't end the game you get lynched D10 and it's scum+3Pala win.
The first issue is that you would've known there was more than one scum because No Bullshit MYLO, and ergo that town consisted of two lovers and someone else. Assuming you were telling the whole truth about your win condition and were playing to win, you would've outed the lovers as soon as someone said "we're probably fucked, aren't we" and convinced the town to settle for the Othertown mislynch to prevent a drawn-out and awful D10 that would've eventuated via a D9 No Lynch.
3/2/1 is not MYLO. It's LYLO, and therefore, it's not 3/2/1. It's 4/2 and you're scum.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Palamedes - 06-13-2014
You mean like, since yesterday, maybe day seven?
Because it made sense and just ignoring you day seven would lead to weird questions I wouldn't be comfortable answering/potentially being lynched over.
Then yesterday we basically had the exact same situation as today but oh hey right I did go after the person who actually followed me onto attacking you and then claiming third party themselves. Like basically right away.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Palamedes - 06-13-2014
EBWOP: If I followed you and no lynched then that would mean scum could have easily jumped on and quickhammered it which would have been ludicrously stupid. So uh, what are you talking about there.
Also hard MYLO/LYLO counts third party as non-scum so uh. Again, ???
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Schazer - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 02:29 AM)Palamedes Wrote: »EBWOP: If I followed you and no lynched then that would mean scum could have easily jumped on and quickhammered it which would have been ludicrously stupid. So uh, what are you talking about there.
That wouldn't have been a problem, because there weren't two stray scum that could've jumped on the wagon. It's you! You were one of the scum.
TehPilot, I know I caused a bit of a fuckhuge detour but would you be able to claim now?
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - TehPilot - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 02:36 AM)Schazer Wrote: »TehPilot, I know I caused a bit of a fuckhuge detour but would you be able to claim now?
Caramel townie with an apparently discovered latent power. I am an ACTION ADVENTURE writer who focuses on intense situations and an outstanding protagonist who manages to always survive. I don't talk about murders, that's for scum.
What's cool is I managed to secure a boon of a sort (thanks to Nova's hilarious shorts he submitted during night cycles, I presume) which has given me something akin to a one-shot commuter power. Under what's defined as vague and nebulous circumstances, I can activate the power and dodge the nightkill. I've had this since the dawn of D3, it seems.
Part of my "fight me" routine you saw was to try and heavily bait the nightkill under the pretense it would cause shenanigans, in hopes that having it be a game-deciding kill at MYLO/LYLO would trigger my escape and I could survive, only to then laugh as I drive the nail in the coffin for scum the next day.
That jig's up since your scum farce was, in fact (or apparently?), a farce, which kinda ruins the gambit I had going in a situation I suspected was a guaranteed town loss. From my PoV it's totally Pala/Seedy now especially that you've trueclaimed for very real this time the role I'm thinking you're claiming.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Schazer - 06-13-2014
Mmmyeah, a demonstrable caramel power would probably seal the deal on Seedy. And actually, I've got a final chunk of info relating to my docclaim that should be the killing blow on Pala, as well as potentially confirm your caramel power, but I need to pull up some quotes.
If you get targeted with the kill, you disappear on D10 and would reappear on a hypothetical D11? Or can you reappear at will?
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Sotek - 06-13-2014
anyway pala uh
why were you gambiting at all, exactly?
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - TehPilot - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 02:52 AM)Schazer Wrote: »If you get targeted with the kill, you disappear on D10 and would reappear on a hypothetical D11? Or can you reappear at will?
I don't think anything would happen, I'd just live. I don't even know if it'd work, it apparently requires certain circumstances.
Anyone have a death ray lying around?
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 8: The Seven Habits Of Highly Dead People - Schazer - 06-13-2014
Well, I've got a possible scenario in which we might test it. Now, I would have stuck with the doctor claim until D10 in the hopes of catching some people in a final trap, but I've been suspicious of Para ever since this post on D8 (after I said Sotek's a lover, I'm a doctor, I'm protecting him)
(06-01-2014, 04:40 AM)Palamedes Wrote: »(06-01-2014, 12:54 AM)Schazer Wrote: »Plus like the thing is I'm pretty sure Garu would've mentioned if the game had zero protect roles?
Feels like something he could have also kept quiet hoping scum would try to claim it, considering how common doctors are in setups. It's funny how that logic is good and fine when I claim pseudo-flavourcop but not when you claim protective. I was considering unvoting but like, nah.
It doesn't help that I've been pretty sure town had a redirecting protection role since pretty early on I guess. Based on stuff like how terrible most of the kills were until Coldblooded died.
I'm revealing this information on the assumption that scum already knows, because I'm reasonably certain their N4 kill failed and that Original Seedy was not the intended target.
So actual claim time: I am Suzanna Dolores Anderson, penning romantic novels under the authorial alias Susan. D. Nimm.
I am a one-way redirector (who can self-target) and confirmed town lovers with Sotek.
My list of actions has been as follows, with the addition of known night actions which may have been caught on the redirect:
N1: Mirdini->Granolaman
N2: Schazer->Eberron | Pala's check on me
N3: Schazer -> Bigro/Seedy II
N4: Donut->Seedy | Seedy killed (possibly via redirect)
N5: Sotek-> Whimbrel
N6: Schazer-> Dalm
N7: Schazer-> Bigro/Seedy II
N8: Schazer -> SeedyII
If you somehow still think I'm pulling a late-game superclaim out my ass, check out this post back on D3 (highlight the quote). Player 1 on the list is Mirdini; 20, Granola. I wanted to encode more actions further through the game but never felt safe doing so.
Why am I claiming this now? Because scum have definitely known about me since N4 when their probably-kill on Donut failed, and were scared enough of me redirecting off of Sotek that they left us the fuck alone.
Heck, if Pala is actually just a scum rolecop like what Garuru pegged him for, he'd know this already. If you're amenable, TehPilot, I can direct the nightkill toward you tonight (not saying who will receive protection), which, if it works complementary to your commuter protection, should clear you as caramel town.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Palamedes - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 02:53 AM)Sotek Wrote: »anyway pala uh
why were you gambiting at all, exactly?
Because I thought you realized and were up for the fact that we were working together after I lied to 'townfirm' you. I mean, you knew I was lying from the getgo (you even admitted it) so you knew I was on your side and now just like
fuck it. I warned you two. I said you both didn't need to be alive and I knew you'd be throwing me under the bus so if I'm going to lose I'd rather it be to the town than to you guys.
Akumu, seedy, Pilot, I give you my final, truest claim. Well, technically it's basically my old claim, just replace every instance of 'lovers' with 'scum' (Yes Pilot that means you had the right of it when you guessed I was up to a godfather plot).
Schazer is the rolefucker (reverses role's result without informing user).
Sotek is the godfather.
That's right! I am the dreaded anti-town third party from way back on the mspa forums (Winefia if I remember correctly - Sotek I hope you're appreciating the irony). I was given a few bonuses though to make up for the original's shitty wincon and lack of powers (namely, the flavourcop that told me if who I checked was scum). In addition, I was given a bodystacker back-up win condition (with my main one being surviving to scum overrun). I'm assuming my inclusion was to help balance shit like Garuru's power play and the fact that every town vanilla is actually a caramel capable of gaining other slightly less important but still game changing powers.
Note that the whole 'nebulous not technically MYLO' thing was probably a combination of the traitor and the fact that though I am technically third party I could easily help scum steer the game with a successful town lynch. As Sotek said - if he was a lover then the traitor basically couldn't have been a thing since it would have meant 'nebulous danger' would have happened the day before.
Like I was planning to never resort to the backup one but donut just failed time and time again to check me and left me with just myself and one of the two people I know are scum. I have basically been trying to lynch Schazer since, you know, self preservation. I made the claim I originally made because I was hoping it would tip scum off and if they'd just let the Schazer lynch go through Sotek (and me, presumably) could ride safely to a scum victory.
Then the lover claim. Which was basically a giant middle finger right at me that I've been trying to avoid actually outing since doing so would have to lead to this post and basically pitting the word of a deceitful third party against the people he worked to 'townfirm'.
Then Schazer claimed scum, and I assumed that she at least had figured out what was what and was going to actually let me have my win too and figured well I might as well try to push it as a sort of last salvation option but then Sotek blew that up as well.
Some interesting notes to help solidify my (admittingly weird) revelation:
1) The obvious - I pied the guy I knew to be the godfather while he was coming under some heavy scrutiny. There were many better subjects but I hit what was until that point basically an inactive. Seedy was right when she pointed out that Sotek was not the towniest choice.
2) Sotek pushing a me/Schazer potential scumteam early day 8 and day 7 - the same time he was basically panicking over how he had to claim lover. He knows as well as any that 'basically MYLO' is the absolute worst time to pull some gambit involving throwing suspicion on your lover and then revealing himself - especially when some guy basically claimed (as far as he would have known) traitor by claiming to have a townfirm on him. So he was clearly leaving his options open to bus his remaining scummate.
3) Schazer claiming doctor - it was clearly a skin saving plot. If she was a lover, a doctor claim is literally the worst one you could make as it basically ensures you'll be shot - which would have killed Sotek.
3B) Sotek was among those saying that the real doctor should claim - which would have led to a Schazer lynch and therefore his own death (again, according to him).
4) Holy crap a lover who can redirect? why that really just defeats the whole point of lovers doesn't it? Especially one who can self-protect. Also, let's be honest, she claims to only have been suspicious of me then but if she really was town she would have basically known by then that I had to be scum. Also I always love it when people claim that they dropped hints earlier in the game - I mean there's no way scum can do the exact same thing (and building up a redirection claim when you know a scummate is a busdriver is just golden).
5) Gnauga lynch. If Sotek/Schazer were lovers and she had her supposed redirection power, why wouldn't they out themselves and lynch the guy who was confirmed scum to them? Why wouldn't they have gone after me the instant donut had checked everyone else? Instead, they basically leave me alone and start trolling through the cop clears - also note that by that time I had basically claimed scum-sided role to Sotek, so they probably went through with it all assuming I was the traitor and thus that any other lynch would be on a town member (and thus guarantee their victory).
tl;dr:
I would rather take the half win I get for surviving to endgame (or at least the satisfaction of revenge if scum decides to spite me any further) over losing because scum just had to stab me in the back.
Vote: Sotek for slightly greater satisfaction than if I voted Schazer.
Also I'm going to be gone for the next 10 hours or so, I'll be back to answer any and all questions (assuming they're from town, I'm tired of helping people whose only gratitude consists of knives in my back).
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Schazer - 06-13-2014
Damn, well, someone give this man a Hugo Award, because I could see all that happening in a billion years.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Sotek - 06-13-2014
yeah okay, pala. you uh.
you could have just tried selling us on the seedy/pilot scumteam, you know. that would have been pretty easy, like ... I might have believed you at this point, you were pretty convincing? and that ... would have made sense, if you hadn't opened with a gambit when if you weren't lying outright you would have known everyone's alignment. (akumu town, your role, me+schazer...)
buuut no we're actually the lovers, so it's you+mystery, probably seedy.
and uh.
contemplate 3b. There is no "real" doc, there was NO WAY there was a real doc, so I was trying to bait out a CC by scum. at which point "hey guys I'm lovers with schazer, ggscum".
as to lynching gnauga: he was scum and YOUR claim at the time was actually consistent with "goofy conditional mylo" - three deaths in one night with two scum alive at 8 players would be town loss on a bad mislynch.
also you managed to be vaguely convincing by mod reverse-psychology, since Schazer's character is a better writer than mine, so a fan of my work was ... sort of fitting??
aaanyway well, you're an out and out scum. okay great.
vote: Palamedes.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Sotek - 06-13-2014
btw here's something to contemplate:
Schazer and I have our lover QT during the day.
Why do you think I was so ultra-suspicious of the 3p claim with "oh our QT closes during the day!"?
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - seedy - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 02:52 AM)Schazer Wrote: »Mmmyeah, a demonstrable caramel power would probably seal the deal on Seedy.
SORRY THAT FOGEL AND PARA DON'T THINK I'M WITTY *shrugging wildly*
also schazer does that mean you got me shot that's so mean :c
...I, uh. a lot happened these last couple pages. I'm posting to check in but I'm very tired and this game is literally giving me a headache so I need some time to...formulate an opinion/response
also was someone responsible for that cops thing or did that just...happen
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Palamedes - 06-13-2014
I ask the real town:
Do you think any game that claims to be fair and balanced would have ridiculously protected lovers in it on top of the (confirmed) protective powers all caramels are capable of gaining, Garuru's power play, an inventor, and a Jack of all Trades if Cyber hadn't been turned into a third party? Like look at the scum flips so far. We have a busdriver, a bulletproof traitor in a game with basically just the scum kill, and a weakened janitor. Sotek and Schanzer are purposing that scum, to counter all of this ridiculous town power, have only a godfather and flavourcop to counter that.
Use your heads. As ridiculous as what I said sounds it's still makes as much, if not more, sense then what scum are claiming.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Sotek - 06-13-2014
I have no idea wtf the cops thing.
anyway uh. well. I have more responses to what Pala is saying, but ... um ...
here's the big one:
if he's telling the truth, why the hell would he not go for a trivial joint win instead of a guaranteed loss?
someone with the wincon of "bodystacker OR survive to scum overrun" (which btw is nothing like the winefia anti-town third party who literally just won if town lost, and was really just a traitor for a game with two scumteams, but whatever.) ... in this gamestate, wins by nolynching, guaranteed?
if he's shot, it's 2v3, he's revealed as a truthteller, and town wins with two alive, triggering the bodystacker win. if a townie is shot it's 2v2v1 and he just helps lynch a townie and is alive for scum overrun.
so in short: if he was telling the truth, his play makes no sense.
But also, MY play makes no sense? Like, why the hell would Schazer and I have been pushing him to test what he was claiming if we were scum? We'd jump on any excuse possible to get someone lynched who *wasn't* supporting our stories, rather than pick holes in the definitely-false claims that would potentially reveal us as scum.
but uh, not sure responding to this more is useful. if Akumu has any questions, *or* both seedy and tehpilot have questions/arguments/whatever, I'll respond - but at this point it's pretty damn clear to me that the scum are pala plus either seedy or pilot, so ... ... yeah.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Palamedes - 06-13-2014
If I'm killed, it's you two versus three, which leads to you killing someone in the night and scum overrun. Nice try Sotek.
Bodystacker win only works with one scum left alive at the end.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Sotek - 06-13-2014
Pala, do you now claim that skip the next day if you get shot?
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Akumu - 06-13-2014
I have no close to no idea what's going on at this point, there are so many claims and counterclaims and for real final true claims going on at this point that I'm not even sure who's story is what anymore.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 9: So Long, and Thanks for all the Death - Sotek - 06-13-2014
Here's the summary:
Pala claims to be an "antitown third party" who knows that Schazer and I are scum, and that he's throwing the game in town's favor.
I claim that Schazer and I are lovers with a shared QT (open during day, too), and Schazer can redirect.
If you believe Pala, the correct thing to do would be to lynch me or Schazer. (or, well, both.)
If you believe me/schazer, the correct thing to do is lynch Pala, or maaaaybe gamble between seedy/pilot, but I'd rather deal with that tomorrow now. (ps: I currently say seedy.)
I think there's no world where you should disbelieve *both* Pala *and* us?