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+--- Thread: Spheres of Influence: Alliance (/showthread.php?tid=4405)
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Demonsul - 07-16-2019
Gundarth echoed Geród's vote nay on article 34.
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Vancho1 - 07-17-2019
Alyn Loras of the Unity takes the floor to propose a new article:
Article Proposal:
(1)In light of their significant contributions to the advancement of magic and technology, in addition to their status as a significant naval power, the Antipode Coalition shall be granted a seat on the Alliance Council.
(2.i)The Alliance shall establish a joint research institute.
(2.ii) This institute will be hosted and led by the Antipode Coalition.
(2.iii)Any member of the Alliance may contribute resources and personnel to research at the joint institute. Council members are strongly encouraged to invest at least 50k gold a year or equivalent in resources to the effort.
(2.iv)All research performed by the joint institute will be made available for sharing to all members of the Alliance, regardless of investment.
(2.v)If any member of the Alliance cannot afford to learn the technology, it is suggested that one of the Council members may sponsor them.
(2.vi)Research focuses at the joint institute shall be decided by majority vote among Alliance members who wish to contribute.
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Cidellus - 07-17-2019
"Hm..." Durgana said, reading it. "I like it, for the most part, but...2.v is an issue for Khuln Kalduhr at the moment. Our budget is stretched to the limit fueling the War of Reclamation against the bugs and the goblins, and we might not be able to help fund the institute for a decade or two, let alone sponsor other Alliance members learning the tech. We'll do our best, but making that a requirement could bankrupt some realms. The Alliance is home to many nations, afterall."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Vancho1 - 07-17-2019
Alyn nods.
"Dear friend, I understand the concern. I hope it is clear in the language, though, that any investment is entirely voluntary. We simply wished to enshrine in official language that, as this is a project for the joint benefit of the entire Alliance, sharing of resources from the more fortunate to the less is encouraged. It is absolutely all right to not invest in the institute if you are unable to, and perfectly reasonable that your resources are taken up with the War of Reclamation."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Cidellus - 07-17-2019
She nodded.
"If it's all voluntary and optional, then I see no problem with any of it. Seems like a neat cooperative venture for the Alliance," Durgana replied. "It gets an Aye from me."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Anomaly - 07-17-2019
Aztra watches the proceedings very intently, in spite of the fact that she's also clearly sketching something in a notebook in the middle of the voting.
"I believe it comes as little surprise that Antipode votes Aye on this proposal."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - ProfessorLizzard - 07-17-2019
Ovis mumbles: "I wish to abstain. I hope you understand."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - MQuinny1234 - 07-17-2019
Considering how much of the responsibilities are optional, there doesn't seem to be any harm in not taking part if one wishes, so aye from Kor Vurneus.
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Cidellus - 07-17-2019
"By the way, now that Orbona and the Freed Bay Post are officially in the Alliance, they should be brought in for voting. One moment," Durgana suggested, standing to go get Gaara and Wolfstooth for that purpose. She'd explain what in the hell they were voting on as they were brought in to the room.
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Corn - 07-17-2019
Gaara was... prepared, when Durgana got to her. Two suitcases, a letter laid unmailed on top of each. On the news, she tossed one of the letters into a fire, sent the other off for mailing, and grabbed the suitcase set aside for “business as a Councilmember’ papers. Hello Ambassador Talksgood, didn’t get to say hi due to that fight that took up so much precious patience, nice to meet you, we’ll be making our official greetings soon. Very impressed with the uhh, decorum your soldiers carried, yes.
Anyway, hell fucking yes, back in the CUBE and informed in time to vote Aye for Science. Two birds one stone, as making a Science Pact was on the laundry list anyway, and Antipode seemed like a good voice to have on the Council.
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Galloglasses - 07-17-2019
Geród voted Aye in favour of the pact and Antipode's accession to the council, their navy was almost as strong as Tiranóg's own afterall.
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Cidellus - 07-17-2019
Durgana also grabbed the representatives from the Duchies. Voting time! More voting!
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Demonsul - 07-17-2019
Rykarth abstained from voting on the research pact. He made a point of speaking up. "I am disappointed that mandatory support for smaller powers was dropped. Many of the smaller states of the Alliance could have to pay a substantial amount of money just send researchers to receive the benefits, whereas larger nations will expend a substantially smaller fraction of their total budget, and I predict that most will likely end up following Kalduhr's lead and simply taking whatever technology is offered without contributing their own resources to collective research. Still, a flawed pact is better than no pact at all, so I will not vote against it. Since it is clear it has no chance of failing to pass, this is merely protest."
Forgent, Bulwar, Elblet, Des-Accor, Ecrithur, Gundarth, Margunkyn, Themaran, Khuln Darihm, Khuln Kalderak and Khuln Garuhm all voted aye. Support seemed pretty unanimous among the rest of the minor powers, though Margunkyn and Themaran voiced agreement with Rykarth's concerns in spite of their aye votes.
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - ProfessorLizzard - 07-18-2019
Ovis also proposes...
"I have heard several recent events. And I have been... disappointed. When I got into this Alliance, I thought, together, we will defend our lands. Be a shield against injustice, and all devouring hunger!
But I have found out that this is not true. A sovereign nation has been attacked, its people conquered, remnants of it turned a puppet state, and the loudest reaction to this so far has been 'This could get them too much votes, wowza!'. Are we just devourers like the bugs?
The soldiers who have been sent to these distant lands, now have to spend their time to pacify the -rightfully- unhappy locals, instead of protecting us from our true common enemies!
Our new friends, the Nogroon has sent a message to each and every one of us, about how they will help us fight tyrants and opressors. How ashamed they will be of us, if we let this happen again!
Now, be mindful that this article, is not retroactive. What has been done, has been done. If anyone else want to persecute the perpetrators, be my guest.
I do not know if this article will pass. But if it doesn't, at least I know who opposes to being a true defender.
"
(1), The following are the alliance's Denounced Enemies:
1(i) Bugs
1(ii) Goblins
1(iii) Pirates
(2), The alliance pledges to march their forces solely against the Denounced Enemies, and protect their lands against them.
(2)(i) Alliance members are allowed to call for a special session of the council, to add new items to the Denounced Enemies list in clause 1.
(3), If someone marches their forces against a group not covered in clause 1, with the inten to raid or occupy their lands for your own, a special session will be called to decide upon their punishment.
(4) Allies members can defend themselves from military incursions, and even chase the attackers back home in Hot Pursuit, but must immediately withdraw their forces once the enemy surrenders, unless they manage to call for a successful special session according to 2(i)
"Now, some of you might call this a double standard. This allows my Friend Thedrin, and everyone else, to march into the lost cities of the alliance, to clear it out, and reclaim it. I have committed troops to this! But please, I ask you. Slow down and take a breath, and ensure, that the new lands can be held safely.
I obviously vote Aye."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - MQuinny1234 - 07-18-2019
Exiro blinked. Well. He was a little surprised by that turn. Very well then, he stood up to respond.
"I obviously vote Nay."
"The idea that monsters and common crooks are the only enemies we must face, that the alliance must face, is a naive one. A benefit given to those removed from the dangers of threats on their border. The conquering of Nhdit Nuskri was to stop the rise of a clearly hostile force to the Alliance and all nations around it, and to ensure that no threat could rise again. To see that the benefits of the Alliance could be brought to it's people despite the wishes of a wicked ruler. King Menkaure Khulka did not refuse to grant Nhdit Nuskri membership of the Alliance merely because he wished to handle the threats of the Swarms and other dangers of this world itself, which any nation has the right to have, but because he viewed the Alliance as a competitor and rival force to his own personal power, and Kor Vurneus shall not apoligise for seeing him cast down, nor agree to be ham-stringed by bureaucracy and distant bleeding hearts in this proffered manner."
"This Alliance was formed against an inhuman danger, to give nations the freedom to exist without dedicating their citizens to martial combat if not desired, and to join arms swiftly if otherwise. It is not a tool for us to judge and control the actions and choices of it's members except in the most extreme situations."
"And also, the insinuation that Kor Vurneus can not contribute it's share to defending the Alliance against the threat of the swarms, and the comparison of these monsters to my country, is blatant, and offensive. I must answer to this specifically, and shall ignore what else has been implied."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Vancho1 - 07-18-2019
Alyn consults with the other druids, their voices low and heads bowed. After a minute or two, they step back up to speak.
"The Unity votes Aye. The Alliance is meant to defend our realms, yes, and although we Friends abhor violence we understand the necessity of self-defense, and at times marching to reclaim lands and homes as the noble dwarves are doing. However, we do not condone any such 'pre-emptive' action. Nhdit Nuskri has as much of a right to exist as any of our nations, and although it saddened us that they were becoming hostile to the Alliance, it is their right to decide their foreign policy. We are no seers, and cannot predict the future. We did not know what would happen, and to initiate violence just because we fear that violence will be done against us in turn can only lead to bloodshed, misery, and strife."
They shake with emotion as they speak, addressing Cregit Exiro directly.
"Instead of trying to reach out and communicate in peace with Nhdit Nuskri, you lashed out in anger and destroyed them utterly. How many lives were lost? How much pain and suffering did you cause to your fellows? Even the hearts of the wicked can be reached through kindness, and even if he was an irredeemable tyrant, surely there were options other than total conquest! Even if war was inevitable, you did not explore any other options, and furthermore have taken their land, the land that belongs to the impoverished people of Nhdit Nuskri, and now lord over them yourself. Instead of freedom you have brought death. I do not believe in punishment for crimes that occurred before a law was written, but I hope that the passage of this article will make it clear that those outside the Alliance who do not harm us directly as the bugs, goblins, and pirates do now have as much of a right to exist and live without fear of attack as we do."
They strike the earth with the butt of their staff.
"I thank Captain Ovis for taking a stand on this issue. We cannot abandon diplomacy and communication for the easy solution of the sword. I hope that this article at least makes any war of offense a carefully calculated affair, one that is only pursued when other options would be worse."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Demonsul - 07-18-2019
Forgent, Bulwar and Elblet all voted Aye.
The ambassador for Margunkyn made a point of asking for the Aghrug orcs to be added to the enemy list, as they had been actively raiding and pillaging the border kingdoms.
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - ProfessorLizzard - 07-18-2019
Ovis was under a threat of strangulation from Capra about making no further comments, so all he said was: "I can add the section: 1(iv) Aghrug orcs, if people who already voted Aye agree to it."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Vancho1 - 07-18-2019
"This is acceptable. We are sensitive to the needs of the Border Kingdoms and would not have them suffer for this."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - SupahKiven - 07-18-2019
Cassiopeia sits with her two assistants, quietly discussing something with Yahya. He mentions something quietly and reaches into his bag. Pulling out a small notebook, he flips it open and points to something, to which Cassiopeia squints at. She scowls and shakes her head, then whispers something back before sighing.
"After some deliberation, Nova Kalla will vote Aye to the concept of the research institute, with the caveat that we cannot constantly be sponsoring other Alliance members. There is a lot Nova Kalla is willing to do, but I think consistently funding the use of tech in multiple places outside of our own lands is a bit much."
She takes a moment to consult with Yahya before continuing.
"As of now, Nova Kalla will vote Nay on Ovis' proposal. We feel like there are definite holes in it and, as it stands, we are not willing to support a proposal we feel is lacking."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - MQuinny1234 - 07-18-2019
"Easy?!" Exiro exclaims, clearly struck by that particular word.
"Do not claim that we value life cheaply Friend. We did not know the future but we do not blind ourselves to the evils of this world, content to mind to our own and wait til they comes roaring and fully grown at our door. An enemy will choose to fight you at a time of their choosing, when they are ready to win as swiftly and securely as possibly, and words would fall as emptily then as they would now to a conqueror of men, for that is what the King Menkaure Khulka is. Then the blood would flow until there is no more strife and only misery under their heel."
"The cost was paid now, and it was no easy choice, but it was a clear one, a just one. We are soldiers and we understand the cost of war and the sword, and do not mistake this time of peace to be a shared and lasting dream yet. And we will protect our own and those we can outside our lands as best as we can. Even now, we spend for repairs for the damages done to Nhdit Nuskri, and they shall see a better and more free future than you would have left them in the name of pacifism."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Galloglasses - 07-18-2019
Geród nods in response to Nova Kalla's reasoning.
"Tiranóg votes Nay as well. This proposal would be too restrictive on the alliance member states rights as sovereign nations to determine their own foreign affairs, in effect making us all less allies and more vassals to the whims of the alliance as a whole, in particular to the alliance council. This is not in the best interests of the alliance members, particularly those not on the council, even though no one here would so much as bat an aye in regards to a motion to condemn the bugs as an enemy of the alliance, they'll soon have their feelings on the matter stymied when the alliance in the future moves to condemn other enemies, and the world would see a reactionary, defensive alliance turn into an imperial confederation. I can think of no faster way to turn the rest of the world against us as a whole."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Demonsul - 07-18-2019
Gundarth voted Nay. Margunkyn voted Aye after Captain Ovis made allowances for them. Themaran abstained. When eyes turned to Rykarth, he voted Nay without adding any words of his own.
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Corn - 07-19-2019
Not quite as simple as votes for Science. The Postmaster wrote as the votes came in, doing some tallies, seeing what could be worked out... Until it was time to speak.
"... As much as the sentiment moves, we do not believe this to be the intent of the Alliance, in fact. If we are to site the Nogroon as an example to follow in justice, then we feel it poignant to remind that they did not decide upon a course of action by running it by everyone for permission. We will not pretend that we believe the entire Alliance will understand and agree with what everyone finds to be right, and necessary. We only believe that atrocities will continue regardless, and our abilities to halt them will be hindered by unpopularity. Until a more suitable solution is found, the Post votes Nay."
RE: Spheres of Influence: Alliance - Anomaly - 07-19-2019
Aztra confers with Prime Minister Vassa for a moment before delivering her verdict. "While Antipode agrees with the sentiment of avoiding wars of imperialism whenever possible, we are not certain that this implementation will be sufficient for those purposes. Given, however, the minimal stake Antipode holds in this vote due to our isolated location and lack of a significant land army, we abstain."