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We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Printable Version

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RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Infinity Biscuit - 05-31-2013

I'm guessing it means FPS where story is told largely through prescripted scenes that play out when certain conditions are met, some while you have full control and some where you don't, and there's the occasional puzzle or downtime to break up the shooty parts.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - BRPXQZME - 05-31-2013

(05-30-2013, 08:25 PM)Superfrequency Wrote: »This guy deserves your full attention. I really admire him for his ability to keep a critique of a game interesting (and intelligent) for 40 minutes.
Well, I had to push aside time in my day... (I also don’t particularly like things in video format like this since I read/think ~800 WPM on a good day, which all goes out the window when it’s audio—also most reviewers on the Internet have no real credibility because they are just some person on the Internet who for all I know sniffed glue before running their mouth *the hypocrisy is duly acknowledged).

THE FOLLOWING IS LONG AND PROBABLY ANNOYING AS HELL THAT’S WHAT MY BRAIN IS LIKE ON THE INSIDE OLD AND CRANKY AT HEART I USUALLY TEMPER MYSELF A BIT BETTER

Show Content

So here’s the thing: nearly anything I agreed on is actually something very few reviewers even disagreed on (didn’t list all of them above, only the things I felt like saying something about). Most of the video I could not agree with no matter how well or poorly supported. I also find it strange that he never touched on the game’s use of religion, since... well, most mass media simply gives it a clumsy treatment at best, and.

But there are signs of a functioning brain and not a whole lot of grasping at straws, plus I liked the first three minutes, plus I like his accent so he’s not exactly on my “Never do that again” list (I guess audio is good for something).

(05-30-2013, 08:25 PM)Superfrequency Wrote: »I actually like MGS2's story after seeing his review.
I will play MGS2 one day, so I think I’ll refrain, but I hear so many complaints about it that I already think it can’t be as bad as I’ve heard.

(An interesting argument I have heard, though: MGS2 makes a good deal more sense in its cultural context. That is not to say that it went over any better in Japan, really. At any rate, if you want to think of a game that makes daring steps, BI really cannot hold a candle to MGS2.)

(05-30-2013, 11:56 PM)MrGuy Wrote: »Mind going into more detail on that?
So in the FPS genre, there are a few strains of game. Taking multiplayer out of the equation (which is an important part of the genre and a huge contributor to its longevity), as well as excluding the first person role-playing games which bear a lot of semblance to FPSes (e.g. The Elder Scrolls, arguably Borderlands, etc.), you are left with two major variations the way I’ve seen it, with some mixing allowed between the two and certainly a lot of permutations allowed within the primary mechanics.

Wolfenstein 3D, the game that popularized the genre, predates these variations and perhaps could be said to lie between the two if you had to go back today; you have to be methodical about killing enemies since they can drop you pretty easily and ammo is not plentiful. You have three weapons that all take the same ammo; the difference is the rate of fire.

Doom is the progenitor example of one variation. Let’s call it old-school (pretty sure some people already call it that). You get out there, you shoot everything in sight, the visuals can often be described as a bloodbath, you mow down swarms of enemies, you typically have several weapons (hooked up to hotkeys) and you carry all of them, level design is not necessarily particularly scenic and (most of these games being pretty old by now) to beat a level, you will probably need to find a keycard and put it in a door, which isn’t too exciting but what is exciting is that a lot of these levels had easter eggs and hidden powerups you really had to go out of your way to find. You will really want to know the circle-strafing technique, if enemy weapons are slower than instant (hit-scan). PROTIP: To defeat the Cyberdemon, shoot at it until it dies. Some other games of this type: Doom II, Quake, Serious Sam, Painkiller, Duke Nukem 3D.

Half-Life is arguably a highly influential old example if not the first of the other variation. I am not sure what to call it; cinematic, new-school, modern, I don’t know. The enemies are not really so fast, taking cover becomes very important, you are likely to have some restrictions in your weapons, you may have a shield/armor as well as health more regularly than in the other variation, one of these may regenerate on its own, you are more likely to have elements borrowed from other gameplay genres such as quest listings (I discounted RPGs because they started cross-pollinating very early on), but one thing that particularly stands out is what Half-Life did first: have lots and lots of set pieces that give the impression of a living world. Some others of this type: Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War.

Again, these are just general categories, perhaps more like a spectrum. When I say we are making Half-Life over and over again, what I mean is that it is rare to see another “old-school” FPS made these days, even though there is the occasional return to form. Although not all the constantly recycled mechanics come from just this one game, all these games owe a lot to it. And yes, a lot of the mechanics really do seem recycled to me. It could be said there isn’t a whole lot you can mix up with FPSes, and it’s true that the mass market seems not to be too tired of them still, and yet I can’t help but think there might be something missing that could be added.

(I actually don’t much care for FPS anyway, so what would I know? oh god i am nervous to submit such a foolish megapost)


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - MaxieSatan - 05-31-2013

Off-topic: I'm becoming increasingly aware of the fact that post-game content (mainly in RPGs) tends to feel extremely hollow. But it's kind of a dilemma, because if you don't have at least some sort of extension, it'll suck because people can't go back for things they missed, whereas if you do have it, there's often a lack of motivation?

It can work, but the thing is, every aspect in the game has to remain relevant or the experience feels hollow. I've been replaying Recettear and, while I do want to play to the end of every dungeon for plot stuff, and maybe go for 100% completion (I probably won't because ITEM FARMING BLUH) there's... basically no reason for me to open the shop anymore? The impending doom of "MAKE A PROFIT" is gone. It feels like, say, playing a Pikmin game after you've gotten all the parts/treasures/what-have-you; yes, it's possible that there is still technically stuff to do, but there isn't much of a reason to do it.

Really I think it's only a problem when the direction is totally taken away. If there's some extra levels and a good plot reason or something to keep going then yeah sure, but if it's just "okay you can go replay things now, except with no character motivation" I just... don't get the point.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - weirdee - 05-31-2013

I thought that was what new game+ was for


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Infrared - 05-31-2013

It sucks that i haven't played any Metal Gear game because i want to hear him talk about games so bad. My favourite part was when he talked about Link's nose in OoT, i love the fact that he uses jokes sparingly, it keeps the videos from being too dry but without making them stupid.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Infrared - 05-31-2013

I think they're on psn, i'll check if they're expensive. Are the gamecube remakes/ports any good?


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - MaxieSatan - 05-31-2013

(05-31-2013, 05:59 AM)weirdguy Wrote: »I thought that was what new game+ was for

New Game+ in Recettear would be a lot more compelling if you couldn't get enough money to pay back the entire debt in like two weeks, with all the upgrades and pre-owned booty and upgraded adventurers and stuff.

Honestly New Game+ in general is pretty pointless unless 1) the difficulty is upgraded to match, or 2) gameplay is fast-paced enough that you can get a thrill just by speedrunning old stuff with your vastly improved skills and laugh as no enemy can touch you. But Recettear definitely doesn't do the latter, and I'm fairly sure it doesn't do the former either (you have to go Survival for that, which I'm not especially interested in either).


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - BRPXQZME - 05-31-2013

(05-31-2013, 09:20 AM)Superfrequency Wrote: »That's a ragequit.
Kill on win? That’s a ragequit.
Unwelcome change of game genre? That's a ragequit.
Punishing my choice that was presented as equally valid? That's a ragequit.
Getting angry that I’m winning and leaving before I can get the win registered? Oh, you better believe that's a ragequit.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Pick Yer Poison - 05-31-2013

(05-31-2013, 01:41 PM)BRPXQZME Wrote: »
(05-31-2013, 09:20 AM)Superfrequency Wrote: »That's a ragequit.
Kill on win? That’s a ragequit.
Unwelcome change of game genre? That's a ragequit.
Punishing my choice that was presented as equally valid? That's a ragequit.
Getting angry that I’m winning and leaving before I can get the win registered? Oh, you better believe that's a ragequit.

I'm a bit confused. Is there something meta going on here?


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - BRPXQZME - 05-31-2013




RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Pick Yer Poison - 05-31-2013

I've been replaying Bioshock recently, and I've decided that my favorite section was probably the short stroll wherein your plasmid selection was locked and you'd swap to a different one every 30-40 seconds. I really enjoyed how it wound up forcing me to use plasmids I'd never really thought about seriously in ways I hadn't considered. It was also something I never did afterwards, because as soon as my plasmid selection was unlocked again I just settled right back into what I'd been using before, which was a mix of "necessary" ones (to avoid being locked out of bonus areas with electric locks, etc.) and "fun" ones (because there's no situation you can't improve by throwing bees at your enemies).

This is more just me musing on something rather than suggesting any course of action. The game was clearly intended to only have that be a short segment, given how quickly I ran out of medkits. Although, to be perfectly honest, it really did make it very exciting, because then the last part of the journey devolved into a mad scramble towards the finish line with a Big Daddy and a bunch of angry splicers clamoring for my head while I was stuck throwing out decoys and setting cyclone traps.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - MaxieSatan - 05-31-2013

For fuck's sake, people really don't seem to understand what causes something to be immersive, do they?

It's not about fucking force feedback, it's about the quality and depth of the setting and maybe the graphics as an extension of that, thought not necessarily.

Not everything has to be immersive anyway! Some genres and games are just less suited for it. Immersion is probably the least of my concerns in pretty much any game but I guess what do I know, what with my desire for silly outdated concepts like gameplay. Then again, I tend to find devices intended to enhance my immersion (e.g. Silent Protagonists) only distract me, so maybe I'm a bad example. Melonspa


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Infinity Biscuit - 05-31-2013

(05-31-2013, 09:39 PM)MrGuy Wrote: »For fuck's sake, people really don't seem to understand what causes something to be immersive, do they?

It's not about fucking force feedback
Are you telling me the VHS Nintendo sent me about Sony and Sega reps trying to steal the Rumble Pak was lying to me : (


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - BRPXQZME - 06-01-2013

When fighting games were the rage, we had our own boondoggles that at best seem like a good idea for however long it takes you to get exhausted, or realize how your reaction time is no longer as good as it was on a controller, or suddenly find that you need a new coffee table, your friend’s leg isn’t bending the right way, and your arm is broken in seven places.

(05-31-2013, 09:39 PM)MrGuy Wrote: »Not everything has to be immersive anyway! Some genres and games are just less suited for it. Immersion is probably the least of my concerns in pretty much any game but I guess what do I know, what with my desire for silly outdated concepts like gameplay. Then again, I tend to find devices intended to enhance my immersion (e.g. Silent Protagonists) only distract me, so maybe I'm a bad example. Melonspa
It’s been called “the immersive fallacy” in one of the standard texts since at least 2003, so you have some bigwig academics on your side? As academic as video games get, anyhow.

Robert Yang recently put it well: “The game industry argues that games ‘immerse’, but immersion theory confuses realism for presence, and production value for realism.” Ouch!


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Gatr - 06-01-2013

Silent protagonists suck. Except Dillon, because he's actually silent. As in it's part of his personality, and he isn't reduced to having other characters do the talking for him through parroting. I'm looking at you, Mario. You and your unintelligible Italian gibberish.

I think someone brought up the fact that Bowser has a deeper character than Mario. I mean, that's probably because Mario is Nintendo's Mickey Mouse. But then there's Link and uh other people. Like the protagonists of the Elder Scrolls series. Kinda.

Commander Shepard from Mass Effect is great, though. We need more protagonists like him/her (i play her), where you can conceivably construct a different personality every playthrough, but it's still capable of being associated with him/her.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Gatr - 06-01-2013

You can disagree, but I think that the whole Paragon/Renegade thing is pretty neat, as well as the thing where making a tiny decision affects a lot of future events. That's immersion done right.

I will admit that his/her characterization could be a little bit better, though, if that's what you were getting at? I mean, I'm not trying to defend anything here. I just happen to like all the characters in Mass Effect.

In other news, my Backloggery fortune cookie rolled Pokemon Quartz. This is going to be great.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Jacquerel - 06-01-2013

I think he meant they were a good example of a blank slate character that still expresses some kind of personality?
I'd say in that regard they are definitely more successful than Mario or Link (although he's better at it in some games depending on the art style) but wouldn't go so far as to say Shepard was a "good character"


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Gatr - 06-01-2013

(06-01-2013, 05:45 AM)Jacquerel Wrote: »I think he meant they were a good example of a blank slate character that still expresses some kind of personality?
I'd say in that regard they are definitely more successful than Mario or Link (although he's better at it in some games depending on the art style) but wouldn't go so far as to say Shepard was a "good character"

Well, yes, that. I kinda thought it was obvious from context but I guess not. So, yes, what I meant was that Shepard has the same function as Mario in terms of "immersion", but pulled it off much better simply by virtue of being allowed to speak and have a personality. Yes, this personality is very mix-and-match, but at least it's there.

Note: I happen to like my particular iteration of Shepard very much, even if a lot of the details of the character are mostly in my head.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Jacquerel - 06-01-2013

Ok.
This automatically means that Commander Shepard is more successful at being a character without a set personality that can have a personality.

I'm not sure why you quoted me to disagree, as we are actually in agreement.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Gatr - 06-01-2013

I don't think that Mario having no personality is a bad thing, as it works in the platforming games, which obviously do not have the plot at the foreground. It just irks me a little bit in the RPG games like Paper Mario or Mario and Luigi, and even then it doesn't take away from the game at all, just a personal quirk I suppose.

I suppose Mario wasn't the best example, as he's too well-known, but there are other more obscure games that also have a faceless protagonist in a game where there should be a lot of story, and that is what I don't really like. But again, that's probably more of a personal thing, rather than a campaign to belittle all those games. Sorry if I came off as overly critical or condescending.

ps: A clear line should probably be made here between protagonists with no set personality and protagonists with no personality at all.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - MaxieSatan - 06-01-2013

(06-01-2013, 06:14 AM)Garuru Wrote: »I don't think that Mario having no personality is a bad thing, as it works in the platforming games, which obviously do not have the plot at the foreground. It just irks me a little bit in the RPG games like Paper Mario or Mario and Luigi, and even then it doesn't take away from the game at all, just a personal quirk I suppose.

Eh, to be fair I think the RPGs - especially in Paper Mario, where you can be a snarky little motherfucker and it's the best thing - do a pretty decent job of characterizing him, even if it's in a broad, slapstick sort of way. Like, he's technically silent, but he manages to get the concept across in a pantomime, intonation-of-Italianesque-gibberish sort of way?


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Romythered - 06-01-2013

Mario lacking any personality whatsoever in the RPGs results in him being basically nothing but a contrast to his brother

Honestly, I like Luigi more than I will ever like mario (or have liked) because he actually has an established personality

This is part of why I think Sticker Star really didn't work
instead of giving mario a bunch of partners to have personality for what little he has to play off, you get... Navi.

okay whatshername isn't THAT bad but she's basically an indignant sticker. whee. what a personality.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Infrared - 06-01-2013

Eh, i dunno, you could argue Mario has as much personality as Luigi does. Mario is a super brave, righteous dude, sometimes a bit too much, he's overall an all around nice dude but never to the extreme. I think that's a comparable personality to Luigi's, whose personality is pretty much just "he's a coward".


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Stij - 06-01-2013

Question time, vidya thread:

If you could design your ideal handheld system, what would it look like? Assume budget/practicality are no object.


RE: We chat about videogames and videogame accessories. - Infrared - 06-01-2013

If we're just talking about design, the PS Vita looks pretty comfortable to me.