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+--- Thread: The Wander Island Incident - Night Four - Five For One [13/21] (/showthread.php?tid=3539)
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Jacquerel - 08-30-2018
Lunchbreak thoughts:
I don't know that I think Acio and aC are aligned, but I haven't generally been thinking in terms of building fantasy scum teams which to be honest I am quite bad at, which is a problem because that's a very useful thing to do.
I think if aC / Acio were scummates though this would have been a weird line to defend them on, especially with aC later chiming in to say "uh, guys I don't and never claimed to have an on-death role, this whole avenue was a waste of time".
I didn't comment on Granola in 365, but I did in follow up post 431 if that helps, although I didn't say all that much.
Everyone who has noted it is right that aC does not appear to be trying their hardest not to die right now.
I think there's a couple of things that could be which still make them scum, including "tried earlier in the day, failed" and "there's still a lot of day left so if they stop speaking up to defend themself there's still a chance we'll get distracted by something else (like seedy and acio, although credit to aC there, they did try and stop that one) and forget about lynching them for today", but I guess I'm going to have to re-evaluate my vote when I am not at work any more.
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Robust Laser - 08-30-2018
OKAY WAY BELATED "LET'S POST BEFORE SLEEPING" POST.
i'll be sort of jumping through the thread to try and remember/reconfirm things so if it seems a little disjointed it's because i'm probably editing the post in various places as i go
alright okay so so so
Iiiii think BlazerC is town now? This seems to not be a controversial opinion despite everything because being mafia wouldn't make sense to try and literally ask to be lynched. Some sort of mafia lynch-proc isn't completely out of the question, but unlikely at best. So, like, town a bit too eager to use their ability?? Orrr Jester. Either way, not in favor of lynching them. Did say I was never good with gambits.
sooo then like aC. At first I was like 'hey why so needlessly hostile against him' but like honestly the bringing up of talking about not liking d1 lynches and then jumping on the lynch bandwagon keeps being on my mind. Maybe just because of how I held a similar position and stuck to it. Seedy doesn't count there were a lot of threes going on this was Jokes. i like repeating numbers. fight me. less jokes and more aesthetic i guess. this is getting stupid.
Point is, it stuck out to me as weird. I guess that's my answer to the question way back when about my Q wagon opinion. Agree with idea that at least one person on there is scum and I have an opinion on the most notable member of the train.
oh yeah noticed another thing directed vaguely at me -- the 'everybody against me' thing was also jokes. I think I made one like, real post during all of day 1. But the one about how I was sure I'm the only townie I thought was really clear as literally just a joke??
like honestly i can just barely parse most of ac's reasoning behind a lot of things. I'm just gonna
vote: awkwardCarapace
unless something makes me feel otherwise
okay it's around here that i've gotten back to the second half of the night
aci starts out against me and like honestly i can't even be offended because like, yeah no i've done nothing. this is reasonable.
Right so the first big thing that happens is aci confidently declares that aC must be town, because they are smug. Claims a death-proc role. Deduces that means that aC must have a third death-proc. ....
actually wait fuck i don't even know if i can find this unlikely because I have suspicion that if I've got a secret part of my role it's death-proc? It's a theory based on barely anything but, hm. If death is a theme here, maybe. So maybe aci could be onto something here!
But! Let's continue on with where this ended up!
so like seedy refutes this idea, not necessarily that ac would have a death role so much as the fact that it means town. This somehow is read as aggressive enough to cause aci to vote for them. Then follows a whooooole lot of confidence about how scum would never be given a power that activates upon death because that'd just be unfair!! But like, if we do indeed have a theme going on with abilities... wouldn't it make sense if one of the scum were to have something like that? Especially if multiple townies have death-proc? Definitely not saying it's certain but I really really don't think it's something one could be certain to be not true. It's weird.
And then it's back and forth with a bunch of seedy saying something and aci seeming to completely misunderstand what's said and like it's been a while but i'm pretty sure aci is good at this so i don't even know what this communication breakdown is and like
But would it make sense for aci to be scum? Like, if ac flips scum, does that mean Aci is scum?? Going this incredibly hard on protecting another mafia would be like, suicide, and when you're already down one this early, is that smart? aC doesn't seem particularly concerned with self-preservation. So maybe Aci is just so convinced they have to be town that they are willing to stake their life on it. But with all the different reactions to the aC/Blazer scenario, lynching one of them does seem like it'll be interesting to look at the fallout regardless, right? And there's this whole thing with like "wow you're presenting POSSIBILITIES" which is fucking BIZARRE because he's treating death role = good guy as a fucking confirmed fact rather than another POSSIBILITY itself. I don't fucking get it what the hell is this.
and then aC claims they don't even have a death role so what is even the whole point of this??????????
Conclusion: i don't even fucking know. I want to know what aC is and then I have no clue what this means for aci, but it could look really bad, and if it does i don't know why it had to be this way!! And if aC is town then like, fuck i don't know. Congrats to those who opposed? *throws papers in the air*
misc thoughts on people other than our star fighters today
-solly early sided against blazerc, was on the q wagon. dunno if that means anything. could later. not sure i buy that hopping around lynches wouldn't make sense but i'm largely neutral on that. aci commented on seedy's vote for ac seeming like a potential bus vote but i could see sol's as that too if a scumflip. more reasons for me wanting to see aC flip.
-slorange actually i don't have a specific thing to say about them so much as the cleaning mention and i want to know if Justice Watchberuru does in fact have anything to do with it. Have to assume the flavor was outed from JW's post??
side note: i actually think the 3rd party lynch was only 75% good at most b/c they might have been a serial killer counter
this took me two hours to write. could have slept earlier but instead i was like 'oh i'll try donut county' before doing writing and instead of playing a couple of levels instead decided to play the entire game. i don't even think i wrote a particuarly illuminating piece of analysis whatever i'm done it's 6:30 am goodnight
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Jacquerel - 08-30-2018
Unvote
Don't want careless hammer
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Jacquerel - 08-30-2018
Don't like that post in general
Very long, says very little that isn't very safe or agreeing with current consensus, few original thoughts
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - seedy - 08-30-2018
yeah I’ve gotta say I don’t LOVE that post but I am glad you’re trying
RL I’d like it if you had a couple reads on people who haven’t been the main event? like how they reacted or commented to the situations and what you think of that. i.e. if you think ac is scum then what do you think of the people who haven’t voted them
I am glad beru’s back (back again)
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - seedy - 08-30-2018
btw if anyone thinks (or doesn’t think) they have an on-death thing...please don’t mention it, ac and acio had reasons (and blazer did too I guess) but don’t just...bring it up because it’s Topical. I know nostalgiafia set a bad example wrt claiming, but yeah.
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Solaris - 08-30-2018
if scum kill me they explode so they shouldnt kill me just fyi
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Solaris - 08-30-2018
more seriously i feel like seedy and acio are both town because if seedy was scum and wanted to go on a pedestal for a mislynch it would be far easier to do it in a way that isnt whatever the hell is going on with aC. aC hasn't really been helpful, aC vamoossed and then popped in to say "you're all wrong about me" and then said like, nothing else?
ac is STILL voting for blazer lmao, we're not going to get anywhere here, aC's last word of usefulness was "everyone involved in the solaris wagon including solaris is scum
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - awkwardcarapace - 08-30-2018
So my post where I claimed to have no death role was right after I woke up and saw like two pages ("oh god") debating over whether I had such a power or not and what it all meant, so I never really looked deep into how this started in the first place. In this post I will,
(08-29-2018, 04:59 PM)Acionyx Wrote: »Hey nerds I just had an important setup realization that makes AC pretty super likely town based on behavior
Blazer's claimed DoB. I have a role that activates on death. AC is quite clearly smug because dying isn't actually a problem for them
Hope this helps.
Okay, initially I found this conclusion kind of weird, that aC might have an on-death role because of how they're playing, and therefore they're town - it's very speculative reasoning but a very hard conclusion. It's also inadvertently/subtly saying "hey I'm town too since I've got a on-death role", which I'm not toooooo happy about? But then Acio makes this good point:
(08-30-2018, 02:05 AM)Acionyx Wrote: »I asked several times for Seedy to offer an example of what exactly you could give scum that would make an on death role worthwhile and she did not answer that question, falling back to reasons as to why they could possibly exist.
To which I say, yeah, the argument makes sense. Unless the 'Dini put in some, like, HARDCORE SCUMROLES to swing things in the maf's direction, I don't see them existing because it essentially punishes the town for lynching right by having one more of their members being taken out by the flipped scum
(08-29-2018, 09:30 PM)seedy Wrote: »I’m definitely not going to think ac is town on the presumption that they have a death power and the further presumption that death power = town. not to be meta, but if past dini games are anything to go on then providing fakeclaims isn’t the only thing blurring the lines between scum roles and town roles. iirc quarantine scum team had a quack doctor, I’d hardly call a death power the most useless scum role
it is weird that you are defending the both of them using (imo fairly weak) role justification like that
Bringing up, like, an entirely different game (also run by dini), and then doing that AGAIN later, is not the strongest reasoning and makes me ':/
(08-30-2018, 03:47 AM)seedy Wrote: »given that I now realize acio has a neutral/slightly positive read on ac before he flipped to big town on them and that combined with a HEAVY scum read on me is probably enough the explain this whole....thing...that I initially found wildly illogical...so this really does feel like it has been a huge distraction and waste of time... orz
at least if ac had a death role we’d be able to put theories into practice
this is all your fault, ac *shakes fist*
I... don't blame you as this quite literally may be true
Also I'm only glad the Acio v seedy thing calmed down, I suspect that after their argument I feel more confident in reading Acio as town, and I'm viewing seedy in a (sliiiightly) more townish light as well yay!!
Although, part of the reason the argument calmed down is because Granolaman was able to mediate between the two and clearly explain stuff, which strikes me as a little... odd, I guess? This might be because of my predisposed read against Granola, but this kind of makes me think he didn't want aci/seedy to escalate further and distract from an easy assured softlynch. This also makes me think that Granola was possibly trying to diffuse the sitch because one of the two people was a fellow scum (seedy, maybe? He was defending them more). But then again, that last read totally conflicts with what I said earlier about how both arguers seem more towny, so... disregard.
(08-30-2018, 08:11 AM)Schazer Wrote: »(08-30-2018, 08:01 AM)Not The Author Wrote: »aC/BC
At first I just laughed at this little bit then realised: if seedy still had their original username from mspaf we'd have, as a follow-up:
Aci/cD
This also works with their current username too (Aciϟseedy)
Given there's only about 36 hours left in day, I don't expect anything major changing in terms of the Votals (and, given that 80% of today's discussion revolved around aCϟBC it wouldn't be very optimal if at least one of us didn't flip at the end [and a lot of people have expressed interested in seeing my flip]) so I've pretty much accepted this course of action. I won't say anything more about my role other than what I've already said, though
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Granolaman - 08-30-2018
I don't know if the situation diffused or if Acio just went to bed. We could be looking at another 35 hours of semantics wars for all I know.
Also,
BEAR
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Acionyx - 08-30-2018
(08-30-2018, 08:33 PM)Granolaman Wrote: »I don't know if the situation diffused or if Acio just went to bed. We could be looking at another 35 hours of semantics wars for all I know.
Also,
BEAR
I've requested replacement for whenever Mirdini can find someone he didn't kidnap off the street
In the meantime I'll track the game and see what I can get out of it but I'm basically seatwarming because if "on death roles for scum is terrible" is even slightly controversial I don't think there's enough common ground between me and most of the playerbase here for this to be enjoyable.
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Schazer - 08-30-2018
Still reckoning we should lynch acio
we can get aC or Blazer to hammer it even
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Mirdini - 08-30-2018
V.Tal.S
awkwardcarapace - 7 (BlazerC, Granolaman, Coldblooded, seedy, Solaris, Palamedes, Robust Laser)
BlazerC - 3 (awkwardcarapace, SleepingOrange, Sai)
Solaris - 3 (TehPilot, Airey, Numbers)
Sai - 1 (Not The Author)
Numbers - 1 (Schazer)
seedy - 1 ([Acionyx's Replacement])
Granolaman - 1 (beruru)
Abstaining - 1 (Jacquerel)
With 18 players alive it takes 10 votes to hard lynch, and 6 votes to soft lynch. Day ends in 34 hours, at 10am CET on Saturday, September 1st.
Day End Countdown
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Granolaman - 08-30-2018
You're presenting quite the philosophical quandary here Schazer. Is the space that Acio occupies truly Acio? What is the merit of achievement unearned? Is all of this blatant bloodthirstiness an elaborate attempt to get lynched? These are questions humanity may never learn the answer to.
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Coldblooded - 08-30-2018
Hi Bears!!!
So long Acio :(
Also Acio, if you still have any motivation left for this game, could you maybe answer my earlier question about where your townreads on Sai, Slorange, and Pilot came from?
(08-30-2018, 08:03 PM)awkwardcarapace Wrote: »Given there's only about 36 hours left in day, I don't expect anything major changing in terms of the Votals (and, given that 80% of today's discussion revolved around aCϟBC it wouldn't be very optimal if at least one of us didn't flip at the end [and a lot of people have expressed interested in seeing my flip]) so I've pretty much accepted this course of action. I won't say anything more about my role other than what I've already said, though
How can you possibly think that this is true if both you and Blazer are town? In what world is you just lying down on the train tracks better then actually trying to get a scum lynched? This doesn't read to me like someone who's genuinely trying to get town more information, it reads like someone who just other players say that the best defense was no defense and decided to take it to heart. Leaving your vote on Blazer and saying that you don't care if you die doesn't read like an exasperated townie to me, if feels like scum trying to placate.
If you had a gun that could kill any one player right now, who would it be AC?
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - seedy - 08-30-2018
oh no, I made acio leave via not grasping Game Balance Theory
sorry acio
I still feel like we’re miscommunicating...it’s not that I don’t see your points about why they’re a bad idea to give scum are wrong (people feel a draw to “use their role” after all)...I just don’t think your points about Best Practice and ideals of setup creation are enough evidence to say “no one with this role could be scum”
games aren’t always gonna be designed with your viewpoints in mind, even if the mod is generally good at making setups?
but I guess from your perspective the idea of not having that assurance is bad enough in itself
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Schazer - 08-30-2018
Vote: Acionyx
putting my shit money where my trash mouth is
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Acionyx - 08-30-2018
(08-30-2018, 10:09 PM)Coldblooded Wrote: »Hi Bears!!!
So long Acio :(
Also Acio, if you still have any motivation left for this game, could you maybe answer my earlier question about where your townreads on Sai, Slorange, and Pilot came from?
(08-23-2018, 01:06 AM)TehPilot Wrote: »What up
Vote: LegendaryQ I'm of the opinion that recommending a lurker lynch late into a slow D1 is looking for a low information death to kick the game off. While we've heard plenty from the school of thought that D1 is a drag, I'm more than happy to go with a more aggressive D1 lynch if it means there are more sophisticated thoughts and more interaction surrounding it, which means we can get more information out of it.
As far as I am concerned, a D1 lurker is little/no information worthwhile gained. Not thrilled with the vote direction presented by lQ so that's where I'm parking my vote for now (today?).
Numbers' early play isn't thrilling me either but I feel it's general nervous first time play over any particular town/scum inclined first time play. I'm willing to re-evaluate it tomorrow when more information comes to light and we see more play from them. In the same vein: interested to see how Airey, Schazer, and Robust Laser do early tomorrow. Airey is shitposting, Schazer is very mechanical, RL's post #155 gave me the yike (singular).
No other major standouts in the negative opinion direction at the time of writing.
It's like, basically echoing granola's comment above wrt numbers/q in a way I don't really think is natural for scum exactly? "I'm going to basically say the same thing as the guy 4 posts up" when game's mostly dead doesn't feel like a scum move to me.
Like I can see pilot as worse than granola but I'm not really feeling either of them exactly, and in either solaris/AC/both worlds it looks even less likely.
Sai's mostly just my liking of their playstyle tbf. With slorange I saw a thing but I was wrong about the thing it turns out.
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Airey - 08-30-2018
(08-29-2018, 09:29 AM)BlazerC Wrote: »When I get lynched I take someone with me.
Yes I'm aware it's a role better suited for perhaps surviving until MYLO or something, but at this point either aC is Mafia and I get cleared making my role moot, or aC is town and I've bungled this up so much I doubt I'd survive long enough. And yes in that scenario, I could shoot for a Day 3 precision kill on my lynch but I also doubt my accuracy on anyone other than aC right now.
I've actually been somewhat afraid of dying, not because I'd be dead, but because I'm deathly afraid of the idea of accidentally killing a town power role in my vengekill.
People want us both dead regardless and I can understand why, so I offer the solution: Lynch me and I'll pop on aC. We both flip, town gets a lot of info and there's a high chance that one of us even mafia as well.
(08-30-2018, 06:17 PM)Solaris Wrote: »if scum kill me they explode so they shouldnt kill me just fyi
(08-29-2018, 04:59 PM)Acionyx Wrote: »Hey nerds I just had an important setup realization that makes AC pretty super likely town based on behavior
Blazer's claimed DoB. I have a role that activates on death. AC is quite clearly smug because dying isn't actually a problem for them
Hope this helps.
SO, we have three people claiming on death role activation's, i find it extremely unlikely that all three are town. ( i might of missed more claims as i skim read to catch up) Of the three aci is still the most townie looking to me with blazerC is looking like scum and Solaris is still screaming third party.
i think ac is either banking on people moving the vote off which is why they are not worried or they have a one off save themselves power just waiting to go off.
it is good to see bears back, jw wasnt looking super good but bears reads ok for now. dont really agree with their vote right now since granola looks kind of neutral to me and there are better targets right now.
Anyone of one of these people who have on death powers is to be lynched today i figure we have a 2/3 chance of hitting someone not town aligned which to me is pretty good odds. Sol being the best target imo, the confidance they are showing is most likely coming from third party power tripping.
also sorry for not posting more, work just got really busy but i should be good now and dont need a replacement.
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - SleepingOrange - 08-31-2018
So, several people have put me as a null read, which is I think the most reasonable place to put me considering the dearth of opinions and accusations I've posted. Several people have put me as a light scum read, which is actually what I expected - and expected more people to - especially considering I've done stuff like put suspicion on somebody else for magic bagging in a post I basically do the same thing myself. I've been wondering where the town reads on me came from, and now I'm curious what Acio thought he saw and what other people's reasons for reading me as town are.
This day really is kind of a mess right now, especially since two players who would otherwise be important to the discussion either just got replaced or in the process of being replaced, so I'm very unsure about where to put my boat. I would probably be pretty easy to convince to get on board with the lynch of any of the following people, in no particular order: Granolaman, palamedes, Numbers, Robust Laser, or TehPilot. aC's staunch refusal two seemingly care about their imminent death makes me disinclined to be very excited about it myself, but we do definitely need to kill somebody and they're better than nobody. We're at the point in the day where we need to start gearing up for the actual lynch, so I'll vote: Granolaman so one of my preferred targets is at higher than 1 vote.
Airey made his post in the time I was making mine, and he is now replacing palamedes on my list.
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - SleepingOrange - 08-31-2018
My boat, lol, good speech recognition
Beru what did you do to me before you were you, I am afraid :<
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Coldblooded - 08-31-2018
Hey Airey, it's not exactly a great look for you to apparently not even be reading the posts of the only person that you've been voting to lynch all day. The bomb thing on Sol's part was blatantly a joke, and I'm also not sure why you didn't follow up on post #369, where she straight up accuses you of misreading her posts?
Also why is she screaming third party to you rather than scum?
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Coldblooded - 08-31-2018
Airey, do you have any opinions on Numbers, Schazer, or Pilot?
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - TehPilot - 08-31-2018
(08-31-2018, 12:10 AM)SleepingOrange Wrote: »I would probably be pretty easy to convince to get on board with the lynch of any of the following people, in no particular order: Granolaman, palamedes, Numbers, Robust Laser, or TehPilot.
[ ... ]
Airey made his post in the time I was making mine, and he is now replacing palamedes on my list.
Why Palamedes (even if it's the weakest of your six proposed targets)?
RE: The Wander Island Incident - Day Two: Cold Dawn [18/21] - Coldblooded - 08-31-2018
Hi Pilot, what do you think of Airey, and are Solaris and AC still your top scumreads?