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+---- Thread: Murder By The Book - Ender's Game (/showthread.php?tid=812)
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Nova - 04-01-2014
(04-01-2014, 04:01 AM)Schazer Wrote: »Oi Watts
play nice
Yes ma'am :c
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Akumu - 04-01-2014
AKUMU'S LIST OF THREE MOST TOWN AND ALSO THREE MOST SCUM BECAUSE SEEDY ASKED
TOWN
seedy - For wanting me dead so bad even though nobody else is going along with it. That sort of conviction seems like genuine scum-hunting rather than trying to lynch whatever townie they can throw to the mob.
Nova - For pushing eberron into soft lynch.
Akumu - Is it cheating to put myself on this list? I honestly don't have much in the way of town feelings for everyone.
SCUM
eberron - Reads like inexperienced scum to me, for the initial behaviors as previously discussed and for the fading into the woodwork after the heat was off.
Solaris - For pulling eberron out of the fire by cinching a day one no lynch.
bigro - Just sort of white noise posting and then throwing a worthless vote on Nova at day-end D1.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Dragon Fogel - 04-01-2014
The Winter's Votals
Nova - 1 (Dalmationer)
eberron - 1 (Granolaman)
Akumu - 1 (Seedy)
Slorange - 1 (Truegreen)
Granolaman - 9 (Schazer, Slorange, Solaris, Nova, Garuru, eberron, icanhasdonut, Palamedes, Akumu)
With 20 players alive and present, it takes 11 to lynch and six to soft lynch.
Deadline is Tuesday, April 1 at 11:59 PM - about 14 hours and 40 minutes from now.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Granolaman - 04-01-2014
Alright it looks like you people aren't going to believe anything I say until after I'm dead. Fine. Whatever. I don't need to be alive to win. After I'm dead though, I want you to analyze today as if I were town. Scum screwed me over big time so I'm doing everything I can to make them suffer for it.
First off: Slorange is scum. (Technically my "Slorange is town" stipulation required him to be smart and alert, something he straight up admitted to lacking this game.) His style here is almost exactly a repeat performance of the oft-quoted Quarantine. Back then, I was scum-janitored, and Slorange simply claimed responibility for the kill as a janitor/amnesiac and coasted by on that fake claim for the rest of the game. He's trying the same thing here while also passing off any discrepancies as simply "his meta" Vig needs to kill him tonight. He just used presumably his team's only method of kill prevention so hopefully you can get through. Even if you don't suspect him as much as me he's still a solid target since a) you aren't running the risk of offing an active power role and b) today's events will have tons to tell after his flip.
Secondly: Schazer is scum. A lot of her early posts were essentially mechanics fluff posted to make herself look busy and active. Later she busied herself with poking lurkers instead of doing any real analysis on the active players. The main tell though is that she is trying to kill me. We usually always try to keep each other around just so we can taunt one another when our team starts winning. The only reason she'd be taking me out was if I were prodding too close to her teammates. Somebody needs to block or jail her tonight so you can deal with her after Slorange is down.
Thirdly: Mirdini is town. Scumdini is way more active than this. This feels like a Mirdini that's rolled a vanilla or caramel townie and has nothing to do yet cuz we lack info. Somebody prod his ass awake, get him into the thread, and follow his damn lead.
Other notes: Solaris and eberron are very likely co-aligned though I can't be sure that they're scum do to Schazer's skeeviness on D1. Truegreen is probably town and Schazer tried to bus his slot while we were talking about polite roles. My wagon is hella analyzable since I'm a fairly safe lynch for the scum. Dig into the people on my wagon tomorrow.
Finally: Get active town. If you don't either heed my advice or start investigating for yourselves scum will just push you all around day after day into mislynches like today.
As futile as this gesture is, Vote: Slorange. I will be cursing your name with my dying breath good sir.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - SleepingOrange - 04-01-2014
:*
I feel like I shouldn't have to point this out, but... Nobody should really listen to the advice of a dude whose faction's goals are either "Cause as much confusion and thus death as possible" if he's telling the truth or "Kill all the town players" if he's lying and mafia. Not really a great position from which to be telling the town what do do? Remember, if the town plays well, he loses! The sooner scum die off, the less likely his three-man-endgame wincon is to come about, so he has no incentive to get mafia players killed.
(I am also fond of him saying "Slorange is coasting by by referencing his meta" and then in the next paragraph saying "My main point against Schazer is her meta". Like, I don't think that indicates much any which way, but I do think it's funny.)
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Solaris - 04-01-2014
granola you forgot to say april fools!!!
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - ☆ C.H.W.O.K.A ☆ - 04-01-2014
Does a bodystacker's win condition still apply if they get lynched?
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Solaris - 04-01-2014
it depends but usually? they win more if they are alive throughout the whole game but if they /had/ to be alive then it would just be an even harder version of a regular survivor so yeah, granola has a chance of winning if it gets down to like, four or so people at the end of the game
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Granolaman - 04-01-2014
Slorange why are you so afraid of death? You've used your power. You know you're not the strongest analyzer out there. You know there's a ton of controversy about your alignment. Why are you so against getting vig'd? You haven't even had a strong suspicion on anyone besides me. Who would you suggest gets vig'd tonight if not yourself?
You're also misstating my goal. Causing mass confusion is the scum's raison d'etre. The bodystacker's job is to make sure the scum have to work for their win. Your team will just have to cope with having two players down.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Truegreen - 04-01-2014
I think Granola has a point, at least when it comes to Slorange. If this is something he has done before that makes his choices that much more suspicious.
I would also like to point out that he has on a few occasions urged people not to take his statement at face value but the moment I suggested that it was scummy he responded that it was not sufficient proof to make any opinion from it. Well I don't believe we can remain entirely neutral when someone says they had a hand in a kill that was so beneficial for the mafia.
He has also responded by accusing me of being scum for focusing on him.
I for one think this is a bit hypocritical.
Well I'm sure we'll find out eventually.
For now let's see if granola is telling the truth about his alignment.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - SleepingOrange - 04-01-2014
I'm afraid of the town wasting its powers on me, since a vig is an important and powerful town role, especially if they have limited uses. I'm much less afraid of the town wasting its lynch on me because that will reveal a lot about the people who have been pushing for my lynch. I'm not fighting back against people who want to vote for me because I don't want to die, I'm doing it because the reasons those people are voting for me are terrible and indicative either of poor play or of willful misleading. Hey, if I do die in the next few days, that's not a huge loss; it'll definitely be pretty informative. I just don't want to go down in a way that wastes our time and resources, because unlike some people I actually want a town victory.
And no, a bodystacker group does not make the scum "work for their win". In any way. It is effectively anti-town until the very end of the game, it aids the scum by muddling votes and pushing for town lynches and nightkills (because, as has been mentioned, the bodystacker has to maintain a balance between town and scum, and town has a huge numbers advantage to start with, necessitating a smart bodystacker to push the scum agenda until an overrun becomes likely). It actively aids scum by its existence because their goals are similar for the majority of the game AND it gives another anti-town faction for scum to push lynches against. We shouldn't listen to you because nothing you could possibly want could be helpful for town. Your alignment is a detriment to us, and if you can be assumed to be playing to your wincon to the best of your abilities, then it is not helpful to you at all to genuinely scumhunt at this point.
(04-01-2014, 07:26 PM)Truegreen Wrote: »I would also like to point out that he has on a few occasions urged people not to take his statement at face value but the moment I suggested that it was scummy he responded that it was not sufficient proof to make any opinion from it.
That's... not a contradiction. At all??? My claim shouldn't be evidence for or against my alignment, as I've said and explained several times. I put forward reasons that I could do it as town and that I could do it as mafia. I put forward reasons that I could be lying or omitting parts of the truth regardless of my alignment, or that I could be telling the whole truth and nothing but. My actions are equally believable as town or as scum, or should be if one's willing to give any credence to any interpretation other than the first one that occurs to them. So, yes, I am suspicious of you for your repeated and poorly-backed accusations, because they smack of scum trying to push a bad lynch. Casting actions that shouldn't be suspicious in a suspicious light and trying to lynch based on such flimsy "evidence" is scummy play.
(04-01-2014, 07:26 PM)Truegreen Wrote: »He has also responded by accusing me of being scum for focusing on him.
Nuuupe, quit trying to mischaracterize my arguments. I am accusing you of being scum for focusing on me for bad reasons. Your entire reason for voting for me boils down to "I don't like your claim (for reasons that I can't or won't articulate) and am certain that makes you scum", which is terrible reasoning. I highly doubt that you, Nova, and Granola are all anti-town, but if Granola flips like he says he will, I strongly suspect that one of two of you is mafia. Probably you.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Granolaman - 04-01-2014
You still didn't answer my question:
WHO SHOULD WE VIG IF NOT FOR YOU?
I am prepared to die for this town, why aren't you?
(for the record a bodystacker who plays to hinder town winds up with a scum overrun and no win. A scumhunting bodystacker brings the threshold for overrun much closer to his own wincon. There is literally no reason why I should not be trying to kill scum at this juncture!)
(04-01-2014, 08:29 PM)SleepingOrange Wrote: »It actively aids scum by its existence because their goals are similar for the majority of the game AND it gives another anti-town faction for scum to push lynches against.
THEN WHY WOULD TOWN!SLORANGE BE PLAYING RIGHT INTO THEIR HANDS?
Like seriously at what point pre-claim would I have ever had a reason to lie about being a bodystacker? You all know I'm going to flip third party, why are you just standing by and letting the scum push a "pro-town lynch" (btw, Agen seems to be following something of a similar thought process. Keep them on your scumdar town!)
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - SleepingOrange - 04-01-2014
You're right, we should leave you and your Definitely No Powers alive, that will be very helpful to us
I'd vig Truegreen, obviously. Behind you, he's the person I've been most vocal about. That's a pretty reasonable assumption that I shouldn't have to spell out. But I'm not in the business of telling the hypothetical vig we may or may not have who they should target, just pointing out why I would be a bad choice for it. "Who the vig should target" is always "Whoever the vig finds most suspicious", and if that's me, that's their deal. I just don't think it should be, for the reasons I've laid out.
And yes, it's just short of 100% likely that if you're not scum, there are scum on your wagon. Hell, there probably are even if you are, because you're obviously dead in the water at this point. But the difference between knowingly lynching a bodystacker and lynching someone we suspect is scum is huge; in the latter case, scum can build a case against the lynchee based on their votes and posts and history, and when they flip third party the scum can go "Oh well we were right and actively scumhunting but hit a non-scum (but non-town!) target, look how trustworthy we are", whereas in this situation we know before the votes even land that if you do flip third party we shouldn't be any more or less trusting of the people on your wagon. I have no idea what you're even trying to accomplish at this point.
But hey, I'll bite. What motivation could you have for genuinely playing in a pro-town way? How does that aid the likelihood of your wincon? What reason is there to believe that you want me dead for reasons that are good and helpful to town, rather than just sour grapes at the fact that my presence and actions helped lead to you getting lynched so early on? Because I don't see any.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Solaris - 04-01-2014
going by the three roles made public in the game, your vanilla bodystacker ness, apparent cyber cop with kills for cops, and sloranges' one-shot kill redirect, i would say that the only othre vig is similarly limited in some way, as such, vig, i suggest that you do not kill slorange on account of it being a waste of a kill that would be better sent literally anywhere else
anywya the reason why we are killing you is because you are distracing and as long as you are alive we will never be able to move on topics because you will be a constant thing to point at
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - ☆ C.H.W.O.K.A ☆ - 04-01-2014
Unvote Slorange, Vote Granola if just so I don't have to remember to revote on Day 6. This is a bandwagon that can't possibly blow up in my face, unlike the other one I joined for kicks when it looked like it had momentum. Now I look town, right?! Right.
Before you walk the plank though, you said you wanted to grill me or infolynch me but didn't get a chance to due to my vacation. I'd like to hear any questions you got, mostly out of curiosity for how you can squeeze any useful info out of <---- this stone and its interactions with the other stones, and as a courtesy to a dead man walking.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - eberron - 04-01-2014
I know I've been called a lurker right now but really, I locked in my vote, its near the end of D2 and I dont really have much else to say that wasn't already brought up.
I'm curious on nola's reason for saying me and sol might be aligned though.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Solaris - 04-01-2014
at the end of day two i decided that i didnt like a lot of people trying to lynch you and i decided to vote to no lynch instead of lynching you
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - eberron - 04-01-2014
(04-01-2014, 10:10 PM)Solaris Wrote: »at the end of day two i decided that i didnt like a lot of people trying to lynch you and i decided to vote to no lynch instead of lynching you
Ah. Fair enough I suppose.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Granolaman - 04-01-2014
Sure I can answer a mystery or two.
Chwoka: on D1 you were all over the place with your conversations, but you were only acting with specific people and seemingly avoiding others outright. Something made you shut up for an entire page which made me feel like you might be scum, somebody was poking a partner of yours and you didn't want to call any attention to it. I was hoping to see more of your interactions today+ but things happened. For what it's worth I pretty much abandoned that line of thought once I saw all these other happenings happening. You stand at neutral/light town in my final book.
Eberron: End of D1 Solaris called out nearly everyone on your wagon as scum. Just, like, out of nowhere. Solaris reads higher on my scumometer than you, but there's certainly potential for a link tween you guys.
Slorange: I will hammer myself right now if you admit you'd be a decent vig target tonight.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Dragon Fogel - 04-01-2014
Whimbrel has replaced Crowstone.
I can give you a 24-hour extension because of this, though it may not matter because we're one vote away from day ending.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - Whimbrel - 04-01-2014
Rory awakens, perhaps for the first time since the party began?
It certainly FELT like the first time.
As he sat up on the couch, he looked around at his fellow authors, recognizing very few of them. He wished he'd paid more attention at the meet'n'greet. Or that they had nametags on.
Strange though...weren't there more of them around?
Perhaps he'd ask one of the veteran authors...oh, but experience made them so intimidating!
Rory continued to sit and fret for a bit.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - icanhasdonut - 04-01-2014
hi whimbrel do you have any thoughts on this
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - AgentBlue - 04-01-2014
...just realized prodvote: Mirdini wasn't in the right tags.
BUT HERE I AM
PRODDING
How long do we have until dayend? Nola, I can't really believe that Mirdi is just being quiet because he can't do anything. Surely he knows that lurking is the fuel which leads to death!
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - ☆ C.H.W.O.K.A ☆ - 04-01-2014
About 23 hours.
RE: Murder By The Book - Day 2: The Invisible Man - SleepingOrange - 04-01-2014
Nah
You gonna answer my questions, though? I kinda thought not, because there's not really a reasonable answer to them.