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+--- Thread: Lucidstuck II (/showthread.php?tid=2474)
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RE: Lucidstuck II - The One Guy - 02-19-2018
Well crap, we had the perfect chance for another stealth kill, and I arrive an hour too late to discover we've randomly switched tactics and got killed for it...
(02-19-2018, 08:44 PM)neferiusNexus Wrote: »>Aand i messed up... *sigh* Oh-well, at least Bob doesn't have to kill anymore. We're sorry Emily, we could tell all that killing was making you uncomfortable.
Didn't we already determine that Emily wasn't bothered by the killing in this fictional scenario?
RE: Lucidstuck II - intrepidPioneer - 02-20-2018
=>
![[Image: vWgnnxZ.png]](https://i.imgur.com/vWgnnxZ.png)
![[Image: bTUzIOc.png]](https://i.imgur.com/bTUzIOc.png)
![[Image: plkXoYp.png]](https://i.imgur.com/plkXoYp.png)
As you rest peacefully, a knock on the door has you pulled from your deep sleep.
![[Image: KKevm9F.png]](https://i.imgur.com/KKevm9F.png)
Geez, it feels like you didn't sleep long, you still feel sleepy. Though you'd best perk up as you've got a big day ahead.
Dream 14: END
RE: Lucidstuck II - TerraTorment - 02-20-2018
>Derrick: before doing anything, check the dream journal, make sure you are awake, and take it with you to school, then, Remember what reggie and bambino told you, remember what you promised to Lucia, the time has arrived to confront alice, remember reggie's plan, pretend to the best of your ability that gramps sent you an email saying alice is not allowed to stay at your home, and that he's returning from his trip very soon, take a few moments to get yourself in the mindset if you need to, when you go down, be ready to ask Alice the following questions 1) "Why were you adopted separately and not together?" 2) "When she was adopted, what were any of her foster parent's names?" 3)"How many years has it been since she moved out?" 4) "what was she was doing on the day of your parent's demise." 5)"how did she know Lucia died.", after she gives her answers to these questions you must shout at her as loud as you can "YOU FUCKING LIAR", Finally, and most importantly, whatever happens, remember Garry's advice and don't do anything crazy. You don't want to live a life of regret after this, but this has to happen. Go gett'em champ..
the time has come for us to see comeuppance, anybody whos ever had a thing against alice, please support this command, by doing this derrick's clouded vission will go away, no more will he be dragged down by alice, no more abuse, no more lies, it ends now
RE: Lucidstuck II - neferiusNexus - 02-20-2018
Seconding Terra
RE: Lucidstuck II - ReedRGale - 02-20-2018
Whoaaa Terra.
I mean I agree that this has to happen, but it doesn't need to be done maliciously. That is only likely to add to Derrick's potential anger.
EDIT: Removed extra information here for simplification purposes.
RE: Lucidstuck II - Panur - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 01:10 AM)TerraTorment Wrote: »the time has come for us to see comeuppance, anybody whos ever had a thing against alice, please support this command, by doing this derrick's clouded vision will go away, no more will he be dragged down by alice, no more abuse, no more lies, it ends now
>Derrick: make sure you're awake, check your dream journal. If it seems ok, try to say whatever it was you remember saying last.
THEN tentatively seconding the command, while adding a lot more chill to it....also keep in mind it's unlikely derrick's suddenly going to change too much out of just this interaction Terra, so i wouldn't keep my hopes too high up.
RE: Lucidstuck II - TerraTorment - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 11:35 AM)Panur Wrote: »(02-20-2018, 01:10 AM)TerraTorment Wrote: »the time has come for us to see comeuppance, anybody whos ever had a thing against alice, please support this command, by doing this derrick's clouded vision will go away, no more will he be dragged down by alice, no more abuse, no more lies, it ends now
>Derrick: make sure you're awake, check your dream journal.
THEN tentatively seconding the command, while adding a lot more chill to it....also keep in mind it's unlikely derrick's suddenly going to change too much out of just this interaction Terra, so i wouldn't keep my hopes too high up.
this is true, dont want ip pulling a clever one on us, then after a quick dream journal check we can get to bizniz, ill include this in my original command
RE: Lucidstuck II - neferiusNexus - 02-20-2018
I would say this is paranoia there Terra, but then-again, i just wasn't paranoid enough back there ._.)
RE: Lucidstuck II - Ten11 - 02-21-2018
>Gramps: Arrive home
RE: Lucidstuck II - Kayriel - 02-21-2018
Quote:Daydream: You Aliens are so strange, you could have handled this any way you liked, but you chose to kill guards.
Daydream: Afterwards you make it seem as if Bob was the one doing it as if you are absolved of all responsibility?
Just, this. All of this. I did say this was going to be a thing.
Okay Terra, seriously. It is extremely well known that you have a deep and personal hatred for Alice, but you need to keep that crap out of your commands. Neutral tone, neutral actions except when there's an ACTUAL window of opportunity saying that "now is the time for us to go hard" before beating someone into the dirt with words. In the same post where you're DEMANDING that Derrick flip out on Alice and completely deconstruct the illusion (who knows if that'll damage the construct or turn Alice into some uncontrollable monster - we promised Daydream we'd not fuck with Alice overmuch to prevent her going further off the rails), you then say 'Remember not to rock the boat' as well? Everything before telling Derrick to listen to Garry is doing the exact opposite of listening to Garry and betraying our currently intended course and promise to the effective god-being that controls this world.
We need to be subtle, so that neither Derrick or Alice feel put upon. We need to be insistent without it being strange. We need answers but we do NOT need this whole mess with personal feelings flying all over the place and being forced on Derrick when it's not his personality to begin with. Don't make him into an avatar of distaste and someone else's vengeance - even the real Derrick handled it better from what we can currently tell. We need to be treating Derrick like a person, not Bob.
RE: Lucidstuck II - The One Guy - 02-21-2018
(02-21-2018, 04:43 PM)Kayriel Wrote: »Quote:Daydream: You Aliens are so strange, you could have handled this any way you liked, but you chose to kill guards.
Daydream: Afterwards you make it seem as if Bob was the one doing it as if you are absolved of all responsibility?
Just, this. All of this. I did say this was going to be a thing.
I agree that we should have never started killing in the first place, but once we killed the first few guards, delebrately seeking them out to kill them, the damage was already done. No amount of second-guessing ourselves or changing strategies would salvage it, and if anything that made it worse, leading to the second line that you quoted. We should have just stuck to it and said we knew it was of no real consequence and were under the impression there'd be a reward given the counter.
RE: Lucidstuck II - ReedRGale - 02-21-2018
(02-21-2018, 06:29 PM)The One Guy Wrote: »I agree that we should have never started killing in the first place, but once we killed the first few guards, delebrately seeking them out to kill them, the damage was already done. No amount of second-guessing ourselves or changing strategies would salvage it, and if anything that made it worse, leading to the second line that you quoted. We should have just stuck to it and said we knew it was of no real consequence and were under the impression there'd be a reward given the counter.
I disagree this is of any consequence. I believe we're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Emily doesn't appear to care and the more we bring it up, the more we make it a problem. As long as this kind of action doesn't leak into our choices outside the minigames, I don't think it matters.
My thinking there has changed, because just how it's being discussed. DD seems intrigued because it goes against what we do in construct, and Emily doesn't seem to care one way or the other.
(02-21-2018, 04:43 PM)Kayriel Wrote: »Okay Terra, seriously. It is extremely well known that you have a deep and personal hatred for Alice, but you need to keep that crap out of your commands. Neutral tone, neutral actions except when there's an ACTUAL window of opportunity saying that "now is the time for us to go hard" before beating someone into the dirt with words. In the same post where you're DEMANDING that Derrick flip out on Alice and completely deconstruct the illusion (who knows if that'll damage the construct or turn Alice into some uncontrollable monster - we promised Daydream we'd not fuck with Alice overmuch to prevent her going further off the rails), you then say 'Remember not to rock the boat' as well? Everything before telling Derrick to listen to Garry is doing the exact opposite of listening to Garry and betraying our currently intended course and promise to the effective god-being that controls this world.
We need to be subtle, so that neither Derrick or Alice feel put upon. We need to be insistent without it being strange. We need answers but we do NOT need this whole mess with personal feelings flying all over the place and being forced on Derrick when it's not his personality to begin with. Don't make him into an avatar of distaste and someone else's vengeance - even the real Derrick handled it better from what we can currently tell. We need to be treating Derrick like a person, not Bob.
This though, I agree with. And, further, discussions with other people have led me to think that it might be better to simplify the command as well to simply set Derrick on the right path rather than directing for him. Indeed, he is not Bob. That said, I feel that rather than evoking a neutral tone, a mildly positive tone might be to our benefit.
So, in light of this, I'm rescinding my 'seconding' and going to change my command as well:
> Derrick: Check your journal and make sure you're awake, first. Keep it on you. Remember what Reggie asked of you. Remember that you promised Garry not to do anything crazy. Remember that you care about Alice. Remember that caring about someone doesn't mean blind trust.
Any thoughts on this?
RE: Lucidstuck II - Panur - 02-21-2018
(02-21-2018, 06:42 PM)ReedRGale Wrote: »> Derrick: Check your journal and make sure you're awake, first. Keep it on you. Remember what Reggie asked of you. Remember that you promised Garry not to do anything crazy. Remember that you care about Alice. Remember that caring about someone doesn't mean blind trust.
seconding!
RE: Lucidstuck II - Ten11 - 02-22-2018
ok actually i miscounted the number of days. Gramps left on a Friday night, and today is Thursday, so he won't be arriving until tomorrow.
That's a bit ominous though, because if he's arriving tomorrow, that means that no matter what happens today, the construct will still be in place by the end of it.
Either that or Gramps just won't be appearing in the story, which would be a waste of a good Chekhov's gun.
RE: Lucidstuck II - TerraTorment - 02-22-2018
just wanna clear up something, my last command there wasn't meant to take revenge on alice, this is what i know to be the best course of action (reasons for which ill explain in the spoiler), i know i dug myself into a reputation hole for hating alice to hell and back, in the past i was really overbearing with it, but my main interest is saving lucia
RE: Lucidstuck II - ReedRGale - 02-23-2018
I don't believe the issue, Terra, was with the content, but with the intent with which it came out through the wording of your command.
(02-22-2018, 03:27 PM)TerraTorment Wrote: »
But on this note, you've mentioned this before, and I assume when you say 'Illusion Spell' what do you mean and what context are you pulling this from? You've said it a few times in the Discord Server and I've never quite gotten a real sense of what you mean by this.
RE: Lucidstuck II - TerraTorment - 02-26-2018
(02-23-2018, 12:23 PM)ReedRGale Wrote: »But on this note, you've mentioned this before, and I assume when you say 'Illusion Spell' what do you mean and what context are you pulling this from? You've said it a few times in the Discord Server and I've never quite gotten a real sense of what you mean by this.
Daydream puts illussion spells on the people trapped in the construct (lucia, derrick and emily), the spell's effect include: loss of memory their lives outside construct, personality alteration (derrick being dense), and who knows what other stuff, hell, maybe the other kids have it too, to some extent. emily's spell broke when we told her about the construct, this allowed her to remember stuff from outside, like that nice lil traumatic experience she related to dd.
Daydream talks about the spell on this page https://mspfa.com/?s=3039&p=4186
"Daydream: Derrick is under a spell, he is oblivious to his true nature. Among... other things.
Daydream: I've put a LOT of effort into keeping him "sedated" so I can do my work here."
breaking the spell is essential to succeed in waking lucia and healing nightmare, if derrick doesn't remember he won't be ready for fusing back with nightmare when the time comes, and there is a danger of nightmare "fully taking over" and derrick could become god tier inside construct, amongst other possible risks
RE: Lucidstuck II - ReedRGale - 02-26-2018
(02-26-2018, 07:26 AM)TerraTorment Wrote: »Daydream puts illussion spells on the people trapped in the construct (lucia, derrick and emily), the spell's effect include: loss of memory their lives outside construct, personality alteration (derrick being dense), and who knows what other stuff, hell, maybe the other kids have it too, to some extent. emily's spell broke when we told her about the construct, this allowed her to remember stuff from outside, like that nice lil traumatic experience she related to dd.
Daydream talks about the spell on this page https://mspfa.com/?s=3039&p=4186
"Daydream: Derrick is under a spell, he is oblivious to his true nature. Among... other things.
Daydream: I've put a LOT of effort into keeping him "sedated" so I can do my work here."
breaking the spell is essential to succeed in waking lucia and healing nightmare, if derrick doesn't remember he won't be ready for fusing back with nightmare when the time comes, and there is a danger of nightmare "fully taking over" and derrick could become god tier inside construct, amongst other possible risks
I buy it affecting his memory and powers. I don't quite buy it being required to wake Lucia. I'm not even sure if, in the end, we intend to fuse Nightmare and Derrick per se.
I think that you might be trying to see patterns where there are none. Derrick is kept 'sedated' so he isn't just blasting through the dreams early on and drastically changing the power balance each construct instance. His memory is kept hidden from him so he doesn't question why he doesn't have powers he should have, or, why the days keep repeating so much. I don't see any reason to alter his personality.
You reference Emily and how we helped her realize the deception, however, she realized this on her own. We didn't really do anything if I remember right. She just started exploring this herself:
This is where I think she got a hint of it:
https://mspfa.com/?s=3039&p=2758
And this is where it's revealed she starts understanding:
https://mspfa.com/?s=3039&p=3144
All we did, so far as I could see, is keep her alive to have time to realize.
I'd say there's a more plausible reason for the others 'waking up from the illusion' at different times: besides Lucas, the other kids seem to spawn into construct instances in tandem with their construct versions and have to share a body and mind. Memories from the construct instance seem to take precedence until memories of their out-of-construct (OOC) selves begin to bubble up, and they accept, in the waking world, that this is who they really were.
The speed at which this happens seems to be determined by how perceptive the individual is. Garry and Emily woke up rather quickly--seeming to within a week of a new construct instance--but Lucia and Derrick are waking up rather slowly. I won't deny that DD might have some hand in this, however, there are probably other factors in play.
For Lucia's case, it just feels like she isn't very self-aware... Ira is constantly having to remind her to think about how she feels and to take a moment to contemplate. She's an 'act first, think later' kind of person, which is a great reason that she didn't look too deeply into things. I have theories on why her memories didn't come back after the construct explanation, but I'll talk about that another time. If anything, it's proof that knowing this is 'fake' isn't enough.
For Derrick, after speaking with martialAcademic, I have a tendency to lean toward him being very perceptive, but also very prone to deluding himself and not questioning the things that he notices, even if it strikes him as uncanny. I say the best examples of his perception are in his perfect memory upon exiting a dream [indicated by dream journals] and his amazing ability to read others emotions and social situations... when he wants to or has to. There's a very good chance he might be totally aware on some level this is a construct and just Bamboozling us all.
I agree that this encounter with Alice and potentially bringing to light her deception might shake this self-imposed ignorance a little bit and might start paving the way to Derrick understanding the construct's true nature and the events leading up to his death.
RE: Lucidstuck II - TerraTorment - 02-26-2018
(02-26-2018, 11:09 AM)ReedRGale Wrote: »I buy it affecting his memory and powers. I don't quite buy it being required to wake Lucia. I'm not even sure if, in the end, we intend to fuse Nightmare and Derrick per se.
okay uhh lemme clear somethings up, im not good at words sometimes, the reason i say breaking derrick's spell is important for waking up lucia is because it involves confronting alice, and like i said in my other post, we've been warned in the past that alice (possibly daydream too) intends to sabotage us, and derrick needs to be able to confront her to stop her, he still has this bias towards alice and we don't know what she might try, also yeah, we do intend to "fuse" nightmare and derrick, but we need to do it right, real lexii stated in a letter (https://mspfa.com/?s=3039&p=2572) that nightmare will eventually enter the construct along with her, derrick needs to be ready for that moment, this is how reviving derrick will work, and thats one of the main goals of the game
while it is true that emily was doubting the construct in the first place (that bit slipped past me) before we told her, she wasnt sure, its why she asked us when she was at event horizon, our response at that moment was very important, it was one of those choices ip gave to us, (i know because i was there when it happened) we could have just lied to her and told her she was in the real world, but i still very much doubt emily would have dealt with dd as well as she did if we hadnt told her the truth
RE: Lucidstuck II - intrepidPioneer - 02-26-2018
Derrick: Check your journal and make sure you're awake, first. Keep it on you. Remember what Reggie asked of you. Remember that you promised Garry not to do anything crazy. Remember that you care about Alice. Remember that caring about someone doesn't mean blind trust
![[Image: PhTryS7.png]](https://i.imgur.com/PhTryS7.png)
You have it in your head that there's many things that need addressing, though your sluggish feeling has you almost slightly cranky. Your sister wants to chat and you feel you do as well, but first you think you'll write a log in your dream journal before you forget.
![[Image: dKxZqev.png]](https://i.imgur.com/dKxZqev.png)
![[Image: BiwHZJ0.png]](https://i.imgur.com/BiwHZJ0.png)
During your dream, you recall Alice talking to you... She said she wanted you to confirm something. Something you weren't ready to tell her at that moment, you think bringing it up would be helpful, maybe it's on her mind as well.
RE: Lucidstuck II - Panur - 02-26-2018
>Derrick: go wash your face, you need to be more awake for this. While you do, try to remember more specifically what you spoke of with Reggie, regarding all the questions he told you to try. Try to go first in this conversation, whatever your sister wants to talk about may distract you later.
RE: Lucidstuck II - TerraTorment - 02-26-2018
(02-26-2018, 01:49 PM)Panur Wrote: »>Derrick: go wash your face, you need to be more awake for this. While you do, try to remember more specifically what you spoke of with Reggie, regarding all the questions he told you to try. Try to go first in this conversation, whatever your sister wants to talk about may distract you later.
Seconding ^
RE: Lucidstuck II - neferiusNexus - 02-26-2018
Thriding
RE: Lucidstuck II - The One Guy - 02-26-2018
(02-26-2018, 11:09 AM)ReedRGale Wrote: »(02-26-2018, 07:26 AM)TerraTorment Wrote: »stuff
stuff
I was under the impression that Emily and Garry's "awareness" stems from their out-of-construct selves (aka Nightmare and Daydream equivalents) inserting themselves into the construct, not them somehow becoming aware of their status. In Garry's case it being him sometimes "taking over" his in-construct self and Emily's case being originally excluded from the construct (with her "self" in the construct being a fake intended to be killed off) and she used some ability to get in and jump around to different points (with a side effect of some mental fogginess upon entering).
I was also under the impression, that Derrick learning about the about the construct would be a bad thing as it might damage the construct, and has nothing to do with waking Lucia, nor is it necessary to "prepare" for fusing with Nightmare. And that Garry's plan was simply to get him to not blindly trust Alice, not to make him more aware of the construct.
But then, this is all from memories and possibly some conclusion-jumping, so I could be completely wrong.
RE: Lucidstuck II - detrimentalTravesty - 02-26-2018
Wew, lurker unlurking for some fun. Adventure is top tier, nice job iP!
@Theoneguy
I think Emily and Derrick and Lucia were on the same stage/page where not knowing what real life is, then Emily had a feeling it wasn't real then so did Lucia and Derrick is... well xD